1
00:01:03,189 --> 00:00:25,730
[Music]

2
00:01:06,390 --> 00:01:05,030
hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

3
00:01:07,990 --> 00:01:06,400
willis your host

4
00:01:09,910 --> 00:01:08,000
and we have a great show for you this

5
00:01:11,830 --> 00:01:09,920
evening we have shane hurd i met him out

6
00:01:13,590 --> 00:01:11,840
in arizona he has a book

7
00:01:15,270 --> 00:01:13,600
basically for beginners i think that's

8
00:01:18,230 --> 00:01:15,280
very important there are always a lot of

9
00:01:21,030 --> 00:01:18,240
new people um watching this show and

10
00:01:23,510 --> 00:01:21,040
paying attention to the subject with

11
00:01:25,670 --> 00:01:23,520
everything that's been going on lately

12
00:01:28,310 --> 00:01:25,680
i may look like i'm out of breath and

13
00:01:30,069 --> 00:01:28,320
for those of you that know me well um

14
00:01:32,149 --> 00:01:30,079
you would be laughing and say yeah

15
00:01:34,149 --> 00:01:32,159
that's kind of typical but i just got

16
00:01:35,910 --> 00:01:34,159
into a hotel room i realized i wasn't

17
00:01:37,910 --> 00:01:35,920
going to make it to my destination

18
00:01:38,789 --> 00:01:37,920
booked a hotel got in hooked everything

19
00:01:41,910 --> 00:01:38,799
up

20
00:01:44,950 --> 00:01:41,920
and voila we are here we made it um so

21
00:01:46,630 --> 00:01:44,960
second our um tonight as chris o'brien i

22
00:01:49,590 --> 00:01:46,640
got to spend a little time with him also

23
00:01:51,109 --> 00:01:49,600
in arizona he's in sedona and had a fun

24
00:01:53,109 --> 00:01:51,119
visit with him he'll be on for the

25
00:01:56,310 --> 00:01:53,119
second part of the show

26
00:01:58,389 --> 00:01:56,320
this week's blog is a follow-up

27
00:02:01,510 --> 00:01:58,399
to last week's blog and that's a woman

28
00:02:03,030 --> 00:02:01,520
transported by a ufo question mark and

29
00:02:05,270 --> 00:02:03,040
so there's a follow-up that's updated

30
00:02:07,270 --> 00:02:05,280
that only happened back in november so

31
00:02:10,229 --> 00:02:07,280
that's up from charles lear on the

32
00:02:12,550 --> 00:02:10,239
website all our blogs are turned into

33
00:02:14,229 --> 00:02:12,560
audio blogs and they're on the podcast

34
00:02:16,630 --> 00:02:14,239
stream by the way you can get this

35
00:02:18,949 --> 00:02:16,640
podcast if you're watching on youtube or

36
00:02:21,190 --> 00:02:18,959
other other um places that we live

37
00:02:23,190 --> 00:02:21,200
stream on you can also get the podcasts

38
00:02:25,750 --> 00:02:23,200
on anywhere you can get your your other

39
00:02:27,670 --> 00:02:25,760
podcasts uh we should be there

40
00:02:30,229 --> 00:02:27,680
if we're not let me know so i'll get on

41
00:02:32,150 --> 00:02:30,239
a site that i i'm unaware of

42
00:02:33,670 --> 00:02:32,160
but um so i want to thank everyone that

43
00:02:35,589 --> 00:02:33,680
helps out with the show

44
00:02:37,470 --> 00:02:35,599
and uh anyone can do that all you have

45
00:02:40,470 --> 00:02:37,480
to do is go over to

46
00:02:43,910 --> 00:02:40,480
podcastufo.com there's a patreon link

47
00:02:45,509 --> 00:02:43,920
over there um i was on chris leto's show

48
00:02:48,790 --> 00:02:45,519
the other day that was a lot of fun he's

49
00:02:50,710 --> 00:02:48,800
a great guy he's the uh the uh the

50
00:02:52,309 --> 00:02:50,720
fighter pilot that was on this show

51
00:02:54,550 --> 00:02:52,319
that's doing a lot of great work with

52
00:02:58,790 --> 00:02:54,560
ufo so shout out to chris

53
00:03:01,670 --> 00:02:58,800
um and last week um we had john

54
00:03:04,070 --> 00:03:01,680
ramirez on uh that's that's given me a

55
00:03:06,309 --> 00:03:04,080
lot of emails um he's an interesting

56
00:03:07,670 --> 00:03:06,319
person to say the least

57
00:03:10,070 --> 00:03:07,680
also if you haven't checked it out

58
00:03:12,229 --> 00:03:10,080
please check out the ufo sighting that i

59
00:03:13,670 --> 00:03:12,239
have posted on my youtube stream from

60
00:03:15,509 --> 00:03:13,680
last week

61
00:03:17,430 --> 00:03:15,519
albert

62
00:03:20,309 --> 00:03:17,440
what's his last name i forgot his last

63
00:03:22,550 --> 00:03:20,319
name i'm sorry but it's a great it's a

64
00:03:25,190 --> 00:03:22,560
great uh ufo sighting one of the most

65
00:03:27,110 --> 00:03:25,200
intriguing ufo sightings i've ever heard

66
00:03:28,789 --> 00:03:27,120
actually so check that out on the

67
00:03:30,070 --> 00:03:28,799
youtube live stream a lot of people have

68
00:03:33,190 --> 00:03:30,080
already looked at it i think it's up to

69
00:03:36,550 --> 00:03:33,200
5000 something um hits already so it's

70
00:03:38,789 --> 00:03:36,560
really really interesting so i without

71
00:03:40,630 --> 00:03:38,799
further ado whatever the heck i do means

72
00:03:41,589 --> 00:03:40,640
i'm bringing in my guest how are you

73
00:03:44,229 --> 00:03:41,599
doing

74
00:03:46,949 --> 00:03:44,239
nice to see you shane

75
00:03:49,910 --> 00:03:46,959
shane great to

76
00:03:51,830 --> 00:03:49,920
yeah well you're a little blurry so this

77
00:03:54,309 --> 00:03:51,840
good thing that's an audio podcast but

78
00:03:56,309 --> 00:03:54,319
you look mysterious that way

79
00:03:57,589 --> 00:03:56,319
so that's that's a good look

80
00:03:59,429 --> 00:03:57,599
yeah

81
00:04:03,030 --> 00:03:59,439
so well that's that's what i get living

82
00:04:04,390 --> 00:04:03,040
on the outskirts of town right

83
00:04:06,710 --> 00:04:04,400
yeah that's right you're out in the

84
00:04:09,509 --> 00:04:06,720
desert right are you out in the desert

85
00:04:10,869 --> 00:04:09,519
or just the outskirts yeah

86
00:04:17,830 --> 00:04:10,879
yeah

87
00:04:19,909 --> 00:04:17,840
out there in arizona you have a a

88
00:04:21,749 --> 00:04:19,919
tremendous beard by the way

89
00:04:24,390 --> 00:04:21,759
that is one cool beard you got going

90
00:04:27,830 --> 00:04:24,400
there um but uh the show's not about

91
00:04:30,310 --> 00:04:27,840
beards however i have a podcaster that

92
00:04:33,270 --> 00:04:30,320
listens to the show that does a podcast

93
00:04:36,230 --> 00:04:33,280
on beards that's what he does uh that's

94
00:04:38,550 --> 00:04:36,240
pretty funny so anyway uh i want to find

95
00:04:40,790 --> 00:04:38,560
out what got you interested in the first

96
00:04:42,710 --> 00:04:40,800
place in the ufo topic but eventually i

97
00:04:46,150 --> 00:04:42,720
would like to talk about phoenix lights

98
00:04:52,390 --> 00:04:49,909
okay well sounds great yes i uh you know

99
00:04:53,270 --> 00:04:52,400
i'm a i'm a child of the 60s right the

100
00:04:55,590 --> 00:04:53,280
space

101
00:04:57,189 --> 00:04:55,600
race generation right so

102
00:05:00,469 --> 00:04:57,199
as a young kid i always had a

103
00:05:03,189 --> 00:05:00,479
fascination with space and astronauts

104
00:05:05,590 --> 00:05:03,199
in the whole thing and even ufos and

105
00:05:08,870 --> 00:05:05,600
this would have been the late 70s so

106
00:05:10,790 --> 00:05:08,880
ufos were in the public in the media now

107
00:05:14,150 --> 00:05:10,800
most the time it was on you know the

108
00:05:15,830 --> 00:05:14,160
national enquirer on on the newsstand

109
00:05:17,510 --> 00:05:15,840
next to the checkout line at the

110
00:05:19,670 --> 00:05:17,520
supermarket but

111
00:05:21,749 --> 00:05:19,680
uh you know so i had a mild interest but

112
00:05:24,150 --> 00:05:21,759
you know as you grow older and you you

113
00:05:26,629 --> 00:05:24,160
know start your life off got married had

114
00:05:28,870 --> 00:05:26,639
kids and you know developing a career

115
00:05:30,710 --> 00:05:28,880
that it was just kind of a you know a

116
00:05:32,230 --> 00:05:30,720
backseat option for me didn't really pay

117
00:05:33,189 --> 00:05:32,240
much attention but

118
00:05:35,110 --> 00:05:33,199
um

119
00:05:37,590 --> 00:05:35,120
as a resident of the city of phoenix and

120
00:05:39,270 --> 00:05:37,600
this ties into discussing the phoenix

121
00:05:43,510 --> 00:05:39,280
lights

122
00:05:45,670 --> 00:05:43,520
uh in in 1997 march uh you know i was

123
00:05:48,550 --> 00:05:45,680
living here and i know what i was doing

124
00:05:51,510 --> 00:05:48,560
that night i know exactly where i was at

125
00:05:54,790 --> 00:05:51,520
like many people we were viewing the

126
00:05:56,790 --> 00:05:54,800
hellbop comet we were with some friends

127
00:05:59,270 --> 00:05:56,800
at their house on the outskirts of

128
00:06:01,029 --> 00:05:59,280
scottsdale very dark and you know we're

129
00:06:01,990 --> 00:06:01,039
able to see that and that was real cool

130
00:06:04,550 --> 00:06:02,000
but

131
00:06:05,590 --> 00:06:04,560
i did not see phoenix lights

132
00:06:08,550 --> 00:06:05,600
however

133
00:06:11,909 --> 00:06:08,560
what ensued thereafter really intrigued

134
00:06:14,710 --> 00:06:11,919
me i mean it just blew up media wise

135
00:06:17,029 --> 00:06:14,720
um you know there was experts on tv in

136
00:06:19,510 --> 00:06:17,039
the news and you had national and you

137
00:06:21,749 --> 00:06:19,520
had local and just you know all of this

138
00:06:24,790 --> 00:06:21,759
stuff going on and it did capture my

139
00:06:26,629 --> 00:06:24,800
imagination but i really didn't um

140
00:06:28,870 --> 00:06:26,639
that's when i started to kind of pay

141
00:06:31,430 --> 00:06:28,880
attention to ufos and about that time

142
00:06:34,790 --> 00:06:31,440
you started having television programs

143
00:06:38,710 --> 00:06:34,800
that had you know ufo topics and things

144
00:06:40,469 --> 00:06:38,720
and i followed it that way but uh 2010

145
00:06:43,590 --> 00:06:40,479
is when i really kind of got serious

146
00:06:46,870 --> 00:06:43,600
about it and uh the first book i read

147
00:06:48,469 --> 00:06:46,880
was the day after roswell by bill burns

148
00:06:50,469 --> 00:06:48,479
and philip j corso

149
00:06:52,070 --> 00:06:50,479
when i read it you know again i hadn't

150
00:06:54,150 --> 00:06:52,080
really looked into anything

151
00:06:55,350 --> 00:06:54,160
and i thought it was a little

152
00:06:57,670 --> 00:06:55,360
you know

153
00:06:59,990 --> 00:06:57,680
questionable i guess and in fact i

154
00:07:02,070 --> 00:07:00,000
almost stopped there but

155
00:07:05,430 --> 00:07:02,080
just so happened that leslie kane's book

156
00:07:07,589 --> 00:07:05,440
came out ufos generals pilots and public

157
00:07:09,510 --> 00:07:07,599
officials go on the record when i read

158
00:07:11,830 --> 00:07:09,520
that it was clear to me this was written

159
00:07:14,790 --> 00:07:11,840
by you know a professional

160
00:07:17,350 --> 00:07:14,800
journalist investigative journalist and

161
00:07:19,749 --> 00:07:17,360
the way it was laid out the case data i

162
00:07:22,150 --> 00:07:19,759
mean it was just it really really

163
00:07:25,350 --> 00:07:22,160
gripped me i'm like okay there is

164
00:07:27,189 --> 00:07:25,360
legitimate real information here and so

165
00:07:29,350 --> 00:07:27,199
you know i started reading every book i

166
00:07:31,510 --> 00:07:29,360
could get my hands on and watching

167
00:07:33,749 --> 00:07:31,520
television shows and getting you know

168
00:07:37,110 --> 00:07:33,759
documentaries the whole thing

169
00:07:39,270 --> 00:07:37,120
and then um about 2015 or so i'm like

170
00:07:40,790 --> 00:07:39,280
well now i kind of have all this

171
00:07:43,430 --> 00:07:40,800
knowledge and stuff what am i going to

172
00:07:44,469 --> 00:07:43,440
do with it you know and i wanted to

173
00:07:46,150 --> 00:07:44,479
engage

174
00:07:48,309 --> 00:07:46,160
you know i wanted to play

175
00:07:50,869 --> 00:07:48,319
i i wanted to have my own experiences

176
00:07:53,430 --> 00:07:50,879
not just read about other people's right

177
00:07:55,350 --> 00:07:53,440
and so um i looked around i started

178
00:07:57,589 --> 00:07:55,360
getting on facebook and connecting with

179
00:07:59,350 --> 00:07:57,599
people and you know ultimately i became

180
00:08:03,189 --> 00:07:59,360
aware of mufon

181
00:08:05,589 --> 00:08:03,199
and decided well you know i've spent 25

182
00:08:07,029 --> 00:08:05,599
years in in government service myself i

183
00:08:08,550 --> 00:08:07,039
know i can function in a big

184
00:08:10,790 --> 00:08:08,560
organization

185
00:08:12,629 --> 00:08:10,800
it seems like there was a point to it

186
00:08:15,110 --> 00:08:12,639
you know i'm going to join mufon see

187
00:08:19,510 --> 00:08:15,120
what what the deal is and eventually i

188
00:08:22,710 --> 00:08:19,520
became an investigator and now um

189
00:08:26,150 --> 00:08:22,720
i'm assistant director of

190
00:08:27,350 --> 00:08:26,160
uh arizona and move funds so it's been

191
00:08:30,070 --> 00:08:27,360
you know from

192
00:08:31,909 --> 00:08:30,080
2010 till now 10 years 11 years it's

193
00:08:35,750 --> 00:08:31,919
been a wild ride it's been a lot of fun

194
00:08:37,509 --> 00:08:35,760
but that's really my path how i got here

195
00:08:41,829 --> 00:08:37,519
well you know you you bring up a good

196
00:08:44,710 --> 00:08:41,839
point where you almost turned away and

197
00:08:46,230 --> 00:08:44,720
um you know i it's funny i i've i see

198
00:08:48,150 --> 00:08:46,240
things happening

199
00:08:49,750 --> 00:08:48,160
there's a lot of strangely enough

200
00:08:51,190 --> 00:08:49,760
parallels between

201
00:08:54,550 --> 00:08:51,200
the fine art

202
00:08:57,190 --> 00:08:54,560
business and antiques and collecting

203
00:08:59,509 --> 00:08:57,200
and ufos in a way

204
00:09:01,190 --> 00:08:59,519
and this is the way it is

205
00:09:02,470 --> 00:09:01,200
you may read something

206
00:09:04,070 --> 00:09:02,480
that sounds

207
00:09:04,949 --> 00:09:04,080
not quite right

208
00:09:07,269 --> 00:09:04,959
um

209
00:09:08,710 --> 00:09:07,279
and or you watch videos

210
00:09:09,750 --> 00:09:08,720
you're really interested in the ufo

211
00:09:11,190 --> 00:09:09,760
topic

212
00:09:13,350 --> 00:09:11,200
and all of a sudden

213
00:09:15,509 --> 00:09:13,360
um you realize you've been watching fake

214
00:09:17,350 --> 00:09:15,519
fake videos and then you just you just

215
00:09:18,630 --> 00:09:17,360
go well that's it i'm done there's a

216
00:09:20,150 --> 00:09:18,640
bunch of loonies here i don't want

217
00:09:21,829 --> 00:09:20,160
anything to do with them that happens

218
00:09:23,590 --> 00:09:21,839
also in the art the antique business

219
00:09:25,590 --> 00:09:23,600
someone buys a fake they think is

220
00:09:26,790 --> 00:09:25,600
something authentic and they buy it fake

221
00:09:29,990 --> 00:09:26,800
and they say that's it i'll never

222
00:09:31,350 --> 00:09:30,000
collect again um so i caution the people

223
00:09:33,269 --> 00:09:31,360
that are new into this and we're gonna

224
00:09:36,150 --> 00:09:33,279
be talking about your book uh you know

225
00:09:38,230 --> 00:09:36,160
later on the guide a beginner's guide

226
00:09:39,910 --> 00:09:38,240
because it's really really important to

227
00:09:41,269 --> 00:09:39,920
get your information make sure you get

228
00:09:43,030 --> 00:09:41,279
your information

229
00:09:45,030 --> 00:09:43,040
from the right places nothing against

230
00:09:47,350 --> 00:09:45,040
bill burns he's a wonderful guy he was

231
00:09:51,350 --> 00:09:47,360
my second guest on this show

232
00:09:53,670 --> 00:09:51,360
um and and he's very very intelligent um

233
00:09:55,590 --> 00:09:53,680
he's welcome back on my show anytime but

234
00:09:56,949 --> 00:09:55,600
uh uh philip i've heard you know i mean

235
00:09:58,949 --> 00:09:56,959
i don't want to say

236
00:10:01,190 --> 00:09:58,959
you know poor of a person that can't

237
00:10:03,350 --> 00:10:01,200
defend himself but yeah i i have heard a

238
00:10:05,190 --> 00:10:03,360
number of people mention similar things

239
00:10:07,509 --> 00:10:05,200
that's that's all i'll put it as far as

240
00:10:09,190 --> 00:10:07,519
that goes but all right let's talk about

241
00:10:11,269 --> 00:10:09,200
the phoenix lights because you looked at

242
00:10:14,949 --> 00:10:11,279
it after you became

243
00:10:16,470 --> 00:10:14,959
um you know really into this topic right

244
00:10:22,310 --> 00:10:16,480
yeah

245
00:10:24,630 --> 00:10:22,320
resident of the city of phoenix even if

246
00:10:25,670 --> 00:10:24,640
you're not a ufo person you're pretty

247
00:10:28,470 --> 00:10:25,680
aware

248
00:10:30,310 --> 00:10:28,480
of of the phoenix lights case

249
00:10:31,430 --> 00:10:30,320
and um

250
00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:31,440
there was

251
00:10:37,110 --> 00:10:34,480
you know from my perspective now

252
00:10:39,430 --> 00:10:37,120
i understand it you know it's one of the

253
00:10:40,550 --> 00:10:39,440
is probably one of the largest mass

254
00:10:42,790 --> 00:10:40,560
sightings

255
00:10:46,150 --> 00:10:42,800
of a ufo in modern history right

256
00:10:47,670 --> 00:10:46,160
literally thousands of people saw this

257
00:10:48,470 --> 00:10:47,680
these things

258
00:10:50,870 --> 00:10:48,480
and

259
00:10:52,949 --> 00:10:50,880
um you know to recap just for anyone

260
00:10:55,910 --> 00:10:52,959
that's that's listening what happened in

261
00:10:59,030 --> 00:10:55,920
march of 1997 is a

262
00:11:01,190 --> 00:10:59,040
very large vehicle and actually reports

263
00:11:03,670 --> 00:11:01,200
of multiple vehicles

264
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:03,680
flew from basically henderson

265
00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:06,160
uh nevada which is just outside of las

266
00:11:12,150 --> 00:11:09,120
vegas diagonally across the state of

267
00:11:14,949 --> 00:11:12,160
arizona all the way into mexico and it

268
00:11:18,069 --> 00:11:14,959
started around 7 00 pm and lasted till

269
00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:18,079
about 10 or 11 p.m

270
00:11:20,710 --> 00:11:19,519
and that

271
00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:20,720
in fact

272
00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:23,440
mufon phoenix mufon we meet in the

273
00:11:26,710 --> 00:11:25,360
arizona historical

274
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:26,720
museum

275
00:11:30,550 --> 00:11:27,680
and

276
00:11:32,870 --> 00:11:30,560
they allowed us to create an exhibit in

277
00:11:34,949 --> 00:11:32,880
the state's history museum of the

278
00:11:36,949 --> 00:11:34,959
phoenix light incident

279
00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:36,959
and one of the things we feature is a

280
00:11:42,230 --> 00:11:39,440
map and what it maps out

281
00:11:43,269 --> 00:11:42,240
is every uh there's like a pin for every

282
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:43,279
person

283
00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:45,200
uh in their location from where they

284
00:11:57,269 --> 00:11:53,030
and you can

285
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:57,279
physically plot the path of these ufos

286
00:12:02,150 --> 00:11:59,839
by the phone calls and the timing and

287
00:12:04,069 --> 00:12:02,160
the reports of of those who saw it which

288
00:12:07,269 --> 00:12:04,079
i just think that's fascinating i'm a

289
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:07,279
gis guy a mapper you know

290
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:10,000
cartography and so you know that just

291
00:12:12,629 --> 00:12:11,680
you know for me that was really really

292
00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:12,639
cool

293
00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:15,360
uh but the date

294
00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:18,000
you know which we always are starving

295
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:20,320
for when it comes to ufos i mean that

296
00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:22,160
data is there it's meaningful it's

297
00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:25,440
confirmed by multiple organizations

298
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:27,600
including law enforcement so

299
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:29,839
that's a very real thing and as that

300
00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:31,839
that craft passed over

301
00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:34,639
over the state again us phoenix is like

302
00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:36,560
the fifth largest city in the nation it

303
00:12:41,430 --> 00:12:38,880
it was a parade it was a show it was a

304
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:41,440
demonstration you know a lot of people

305
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:43,600
saw that and then the second piece to

306
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:47,200
that was a series of lights um that

307
00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:49,279
appeared over a mountain range southwest

308
00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:51,600
of phoenix called the estrellas

309
00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:53,920
which in um

310
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:55,760
the native american language which

311
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:56,720
that's

312
00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:00,000
taken is basically star mountains right

313
00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:02,560
and star people so that's kind of an

314
00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:05,040
interesting little twist there to it but

315
00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:07,920
that's the the video that some people

316
00:13:11,590 --> 00:13:10,000
caught and that's what the television

317
00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:11,600
news program put on of course they're

318
00:13:16,310 --> 00:13:14,320
visual everyone wants to see a video

319
00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:16,320
and there were really poor quality and

320
00:13:20,990 --> 00:13:19,200
few videos of the big crafts flying over

321
00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:21,000
so that's the one that gets all the

322
00:13:26,870 --> 00:13:23,920
attention is is that

323
00:13:28,150 --> 00:13:26,880
series of uh looks like seven six seven

324
00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:28,160
eight lights

325
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:30,800
in sort of a boomerang configuration and

326
00:13:34,949 --> 00:13:32,639
it hovered there for a period of time

327
00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:34,959
and so there's been much debate you know

328
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:37,200
uh the the government claim yeah that

329
00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:40,480
was uh you know airplanes dropping um

330
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:41,680
flares

331
00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:44,079
uh and some people accept that and then

332
00:13:47,750 --> 00:13:46,160
other people say no those weren't flares

333
00:13:48,870 --> 00:13:47,760
it was something different you know i'm

334
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:48,880
not going to get caught up in the

335
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:51,040
controversy of all that i

336
00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:55,920
but but clearly something very unusual

337
00:14:01,430 --> 00:13:57,760
occurred

338
00:14:03,269 --> 00:14:01,440
and that is confirmable by data now some

339
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:03,279
of the other stuff isn't confirmed like

340
00:14:08,629 --> 00:14:05,600
you know luke air force base scrambled a

341
00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:08,639
couple of pilots uh f-16s they fly out

342
00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:11,199
of there and they apparently you know

343
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:12,880
got close to this thing and were so

344
00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:15,120
upset by it that when they landed one of

345
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:16,880
the pilots had to be helped out of the

346
00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:18,720
aircraft and you know things like that

347
00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:21,199
those are stories that aren't confirmed

348
00:14:27,110 --> 00:14:23,920
interesting so i don't like to um

349
00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:27,120
hang my hat on that but definitely

350
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:29,600
you know it's a real event it was

351
00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:31,680
historical

352
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:34,240
had anyone ever interviewed that pilot

353
00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:35,120
or

354
00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:37,360
they just can't talk about it i mean

355
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:39,680
years have gone by now that's

356
00:14:43,509 --> 00:14:41,839
uh you know we're going on

357
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:43,519
what are we coming up to we're coming up

358
00:14:47,269 --> 00:14:45,360
to the 30th

359
00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:47,279
anniversary of that you know i mean it

360
00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:48,399
seems like

361
00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:50,639
that person would be long retired but by

362
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:52,160
the way

363
00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:54,639
a little shout out to tom king he's in

364
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:56,959
the chat now listening to the show tom

365
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:00,079
king uh filmed the phoenix lights

366
00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:03,920
and he's in chat right now so hello tom

367
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:04,720
um

368
00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:06,800
but interesting there is a lot of

369
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:09,839
controversy awesome

370
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:11,279
for instance

371
00:15:15,350 --> 00:15:13,440
i've heard that you know some speaking

372
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:15,360
of filming the actual filming of the

373
00:15:18,870 --> 00:15:16,320
lights

374
00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:18,880
themselves a lot of people saying you

375
00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:21,920
know there's not a lot of that it's

376
00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:24,160
mostly when they actually did shoot the

377
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:25,519
flares off

378
00:15:30,150 --> 00:15:27,680
you know that people caught that on film

379
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:30,160
but not so much on the

380
00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:32,000
craft itself

381
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:39,749
yeah i do know that there are actually a

382
00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:44,160
couple videos of the craft flying over

383
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:47,920
um again you got to remember 1997 uh the

384
00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:50,480
technology we're talking video tape

385
00:15:55,509 --> 00:15:52,720
right those are video cassettes remember

386
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:55,519
the big ones you'd set on your shoulder

387
00:16:00,389 --> 00:15:58,000
yeah it was a technology at the time

388
00:16:02,949 --> 00:16:00,399
and at night it was pretty poor quality

389
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:02,959
but you do see some lights flying over

390
00:16:06,629 --> 00:16:05,440
against the dark sky so you know there's

391
00:16:08,949 --> 00:16:06,639
something there

392
00:16:09,749 --> 00:16:08,959
um and i believe there might be one

393
00:16:12,069 --> 00:16:09,759
other

394
00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:12,079
but let me say this um

395
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:14,800
you know dr lynn key tai she she has

396
00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:17,360
kept this story alive and made made a

397
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:20,160
couple movies and and um book and so

398
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:23,759
forth and every year she does a

399
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:27,360
a memorial event um gather speakers

400
00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:29,360
together plays a movie and some things

401
00:16:33,189 --> 00:16:30,560
like that but

402
00:16:36,389 --> 00:16:33,199
um you know believe it or not there are

403
00:16:38,069 --> 00:16:36,399
still new witnesses coming out

404
00:16:38,949 --> 00:16:38,079
on occasion so

405
00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:38,959
last

406
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:42,160
less so 2019 before covid i did meet a

407
00:16:48,550 --> 00:16:46,000
gentleman from sedona arizona who

408
00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:48,560
did not report it

409
00:16:54,870 --> 00:16:51,279
but came out now and he had

410
00:16:57,430 --> 00:16:54,880
good cred very good credentials um

411
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:57,440
and as a scientist and he

412
00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:00,079
in fact saw this thing but you know

413
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:02,800
it wasn't until he retired and was out

414
00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:04,720
uh out of that the

415
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:06,640
that world that he felt comfortable

416
00:17:12,390 --> 00:17:08,720
coming forward so you know we may get

417
00:17:14,470 --> 00:17:12,400
some surprise uh video or something uh

418
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:14,480
in the future or somebody's son or

419
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:16,640
daughter might find it or whatever but

420
00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:20,160
um as far as i'm aware there's a couple

421
00:17:24,069 --> 00:17:22,959
of the videos for for the um flare

422
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:24,079
looking

423
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:26,160
objects lights over the estrellas and

424
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:27,360
one or two

425
00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:28,319
um

426
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:30,240
uh elsewhere in the state seeing the

427
00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:33,360
craft and then dr lan kitai she had

428
00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:35,760
the sighting was more than just that

429
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:37,919
night for her she had recorded on

430
00:17:42,150 --> 00:17:40,320
multiple occasions

431
00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:42,160
some of these lights and

432
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:44,880
some things near her home and some right

433
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:46,799
over downtown phoenix so

434
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:47,600
you know

435
00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:49,120
i don't think it was just a singular

436
00:17:53,909 --> 00:17:51,440
event there are other events related to

437
00:17:55,909 --> 00:17:53,919
it um and some some of these things are

438
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:55,919
still even occurring today

439
00:18:00,710 --> 00:17:58,000
we get these reports

440
00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:00,720
of these strange

441
00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:04,240
lights you know even over downtown

442
00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:06,240
so that's that's interesting it's always

443
00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:08,240
fascinated me ever since i started doing

444
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:09,200
the show

445
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:11,919
and really looked into this topic how

446
00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:14,640
something seems to repeat itself

447
00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:16,480
in a location

448
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:17,520
you know

449
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:19,600
if if for instance

450
00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:22,240
that you know one of the theories are

451
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:23,840
that they're extraterrestrial and they

452
00:18:27,909 --> 00:18:25,120
arrive here

453
00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:27,919
um from elsewhere and it's always

454
00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:30,000
puzzled me well the why is there a hot

455
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:31,360
spot what is

456
00:18:37,029 --> 00:18:33,600
why would the same craft be seen over

457
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:37,039
the same area over and over again

458
00:18:39,669 --> 00:18:38,880
it doesn't really

459
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:39,679
make

460
00:18:44,549 --> 00:18:42,160
any sense it i mean of course i'm trying

461
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:44,559
to think in human terms maybe they have

462
00:18:49,990 --> 00:18:47,760
a different way of thinking and you know

463
00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:50,000
i don't even you know it's crazy stuff

464
00:18:54,870 --> 00:18:53,120
though how it just keeps happening

465
00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:54,880
so

466
00:18:57,909 --> 00:18:56,480
you think it it is

467
00:18:59,830 --> 00:18:57,919
we got a little bit of a lag and i

468
00:19:01,909 --> 00:18:59,840
apologize to the listeners so when i

469
00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:01,919
stop speaking it takes a little while

470
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:08,549
when it comes to

471
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:11,520
you said that we may still someday

472
00:19:14,470 --> 00:19:12,400
get

473
00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:14,480
more information do you really feel that

474
00:19:17,990 --> 00:19:16,080
that could happen a lot of people will

475
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:18,000
say why are you talking about such an

476
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:20,160
old case you know i get those emails all

477
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:21,039
the time

478
00:19:26,789 --> 00:19:23,760
um i think because it's one of the

479
00:19:28,789 --> 00:19:26,799
amazing mass sightings that there have

480
00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:28,799
been i mean one of the probably the

481
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:31,120
largest mass sighting anywhere in any

482
00:19:34,470 --> 00:19:32,080
time

483
00:19:39,110 --> 00:19:34,480
um in our modern history

484
00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:41,270
yeah no i i totally agree with you and i

485
00:19:47,270 --> 00:19:43,760
think um in fact i deal with a a chapter

486
00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:47,280
in my whole book about the importance of

487
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:49,360
um what we can

488
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:50,160
call

489
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:54,080
classic cases and and so

490
00:19:57,590 --> 00:19:55,679
um

491
00:20:00,789 --> 00:19:57,600
i don't think any case is ever

492
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:00,799
completely dead you know as you just

493
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:02,880
mentioned we think in human terms right

494
00:20:18,310 --> 00:20:16,230
but we think in human terms but yeah

495
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:18,320
yeah we we just see everything from the

496
00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:20,400
point of view of a human and that's you

497
00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:23,200
know logical but it's limiting right

498
00:20:28,630 --> 00:20:26,240
but um you know maybe the reason they

499
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:28,640
appear in the same places is maybe it's

500
00:20:33,029 --> 00:20:31,840
a portal maybe how they get here is in a

501
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:33,039
fixed

502
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:35,840
location or something i don't know but

503
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:37,679
you know it requires us to kind of

504
00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:40,080
really think out of the box now i'm you

505
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:42,559
know i'm a i'm a big

506
00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:45,039
evidence guy as a as

507
00:20:51,830 --> 00:20:49,600
an investigator but um

508
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:51,840
you know i think it's really important

509
00:20:56,549 --> 00:20:54,240
when when you look at it let's say an

510
00:20:58,789 --> 00:20:56,559
old why would we still study that well a

511
00:21:00,549 --> 00:20:58,799
couple of things one maybe everything

512
00:21:02,149 --> 00:21:00,559
wasn't uncovered at the time or maybe

513
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:02,159
somebody who thinks a little differently

514
00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:03,919
picks up something else that others

515
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:06,000
didn't pick up at the time or a big one

516
00:21:11,029 --> 00:21:08,559
is technology is different now we have

517
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:11,039
more resources more tools more things

518
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:13,600
available to us to help identify you

519
00:21:18,630 --> 00:21:16,559
know things such as that so to me a case

520
00:21:20,549 --> 00:21:18,640
is never dead it's in fact when we do a

521
00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:20,559
mufon case we kind of have a disclaimer

522
00:21:24,310 --> 00:21:22,400
at the end that says you know this is

523
00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:24,320
kind of what we think now

524
00:21:29,110 --> 00:21:26,400
based on the evidence we have

525
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:29,120
but you know new evidence could come to

526
00:21:33,029 --> 00:21:31,200
light if it does we can reopen this case

527
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:33,039
and we can look at it in that new light

528
00:21:36,310 --> 00:21:33,840
so

529
00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:36,320
i think um and then and then the other

530
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:40,000
thing about classic cases is

531
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:42,000
every case has

532
00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:45,120
a certain strength or or weakness so

533
00:21:48,789 --> 00:21:47,200
what i mean by that is

534
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:48,799
one case might be really important

535
00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:51,440
because of who reported it you know we

536
00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:53,440
we like to think you know military

537
00:21:58,630 --> 00:21:56,000
personnel or law enforcement or

538
00:22:01,270 --> 00:21:58,640
engineers you know would be really

539
00:22:03,830 --> 00:22:01,280
their pilots would be really great

540
00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:03,840
you know witnesses and so

541
00:22:07,590 --> 00:22:06,000
one case might have that as a big chunk

542
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:07,600
of its um

543
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:09,679
you know evidence but other ones might

544
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:12,000
be great photographic or video evidence

545
00:22:17,669 --> 00:22:13,919
or something else may have actual trace

546
00:22:19,430 --> 00:22:17,679
evidence chemical or radiological um so

547
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:19,440
you know there's something to be learned

548
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:21,200
from every case

549
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:22,960
in that they are different and have

550
00:22:26,789 --> 00:22:25,120
different strengths and weaknesses so

551
00:22:31,590 --> 00:22:26,799
that's uh that's something i think is

552
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:33,430
yeah um

553
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:38,950
uh one of the things i'd like to i hope

554
00:22:42,789 --> 00:22:40,320
it's all right with you i'm trying to

555
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:42,799
get a hold of bill but um i'd like to

556
00:22:47,110 --> 00:22:45,200
invite uh tom to talk with us for a

557
00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:47,120
couple minutes you up for that

558
00:22:51,029 --> 00:22:50,080
tom king oh yeah absolutely yeah all

559
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:51,039
right

560
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:54,000
so uh uh tom if you're listening

561
00:22:58,390 --> 00:22:56,240
i'm trying to get bill to make sure he

562
00:23:00,950 --> 00:22:58,400
can take your call but i'm going to say

563
00:23:04,470 --> 00:23:00,960
uh go ahead and give us a ring at

564
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,789
855-472-544

565
00:23:12,870 --> 00:23:10,870
tom king give us a ring

566
00:23:14,149 --> 00:23:12,880
and i didn't even mean to rhyme that but

567
00:23:15,510 --> 00:23:14,159
anyway

568
00:23:16,870 --> 00:23:15,520
uh yeah he said

569
00:23:18,789 --> 00:23:16,880
he will be in it

570
00:23:22,230 --> 00:23:18,799
so hopefully bill

571
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:22,240
bill you're supposed to be listening

572
00:23:26,390 --> 00:23:24,320
over at kgr a radio hopefully you're

573
00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:26,400
listening bill and you'll pick up

574
00:23:31,029 --> 00:23:29,440
uh pick up the phone but um so i want to

575
00:23:32,789 --> 00:23:31,039
i want to hang in on this case just a

576
00:23:34,230 --> 00:23:32,799
little a little while longer of course

577
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:34,240
get get tom

578
00:23:38,710 --> 00:23:36,400
in if possible but also

579
00:23:40,149 --> 00:23:38,720
you know the aspect of someone that may

580
00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:40,159
not be listening

581
00:23:43,830 --> 00:23:41,520
i mean that may be listening to this

582
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:43,840
that may be new is they don't know the

583
00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:44,960
fact that

584
00:23:49,510 --> 00:23:48,000
the governor of arizona uh fife

585
00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:49,520
symington

586
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:51,840
was in a park

587
00:23:59,269 --> 00:23:55,120
and uh he saw this thing fly over him

588
00:24:08,310 --> 00:24:03,510
he kept it secret right ten years

589
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:08,320
yeah until 2007 and uh james fox was

590
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:10,080
interviewing uh

591
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:11,760
um

592
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:12,720
okay

593
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:14,080
wow

594
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:16,799
uh yeah that's that's something and you

595
00:24:20,230 --> 00:24:18,640
know i mean

596
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:20,240
i didn't realize that's when he came

597
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:21,919
came out with that he actually saw it

598
00:24:26,149 --> 00:24:24,480
himself but for him to go forward and

599
00:24:28,630 --> 00:24:26,159
you know he he's tried to calm the

600
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:28,640
public down and ridiculed you know the

601
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:30,480
fact or made a joke of it really got a

602
00:24:33,269 --> 00:24:32,320
lot of people pretty angry when he did

603
00:24:35,269 --> 00:24:33,279
that

604
00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:35,279
um he's still not

605
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:36,720
the last time i heard an interview of

606
00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:39,600
him he didn't seem like real apologetic

607
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:41,600
i mean he i have seen him be a little

608
00:24:46,549 --> 00:24:42,880
apologetic

609
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:46,559
but uh anyway we're bringing in uh we'll

610
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:48,480
bring him in right now tom king you on

611
00:24:53,510 --> 00:24:52,470
hello

612
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:53,520
hey tom

613
00:25:03,190 --> 00:24:59,430
how are you

614
00:25:04,870 --> 00:25:03,200
so i'm good uh my good buddy dave uh you

615
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:04,880
know it's weird psychic thing i haven't

616
00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:07,039
talked to him about two months

617
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:08,880
and i was thinking about touching base

618
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:11,520
with him and then he calls and says hey

619
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:13,440
we need your uh we need your thoughts

620
00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:14,960
over here because i lived through the

621
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:16,480
phoenix lights

622
00:25:21,669 --> 00:25:18,799
videotaped them i was one of the

623
00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:21,679
original investigators of it

624
00:25:27,909 --> 00:25:24,880
along with bill hamilton uh the late dr

625
00:25:29,830 --> 00:25:27,919
michael tanner and jim de la tusso

626
00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:29,840
richard motzler

627
00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:32,960
and then the other debunkers that did it

628
00:25:39,669 --> 00:25:34,640
in the investigation of our

629
00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:41,430
thank you very much for calling in and i

630
00:25:45,909 --> 00:25:43,600
do want to talk about this um

631
00:25:47,909 --> 00:25:45,919
for with the three of us are you and

632
00:25:49,830 --> 00:25:47,919
shane uh you know shane's looked into it

633
00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:49,840
he was there of course i don't know if

634
00:25:52,070 --> 00:25:50,960
you heard that part of it how long

635
00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:52,080
you've been listening but he was there

636
00:25:55,990 --> 00:25:54,080
when it happened but not really into the

637
00:26:00,549 --> 00:25:56,000
topic he did more looking into it

638
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:00,559
afterward but let's hear if we can uh

639
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:02,720
a lot of people have that are listening

640
00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:05,440
are new to the ufo world but um and i

641
00:26:09,269 --> 00:26:06,880
don't need to repeat exactly what

642
00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:09,279
happened but if you can go into what

643
00:26:14,710 --> 00:26:12,080
your part of the investigation was and

644
00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:14,720
also you're filming and i understand by

645
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:16,480
what you said in chat that things are

646
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:18,240
still going on i'd love to touch on that

647
00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:19,840
too

648
00:26:25,430 --> 00:26:22,960
uh first of all i came into this maybe

649
00:26:28,149 --> 00:26:25,440
15 20 minutes ago and i listened to

650
00:26:30,149 --> 00:26:28,159
shane's breakdown about that far in

651
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:30,159
and i have to say don't disagree with

652
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:31,919
anything that he was saying

653
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:34,480
uh his timeline of the the thing coming

654
00:26:39,909 --> 00:26:36,880
down the state was pretty much in line

655
00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:39,919
what i say um we can get into the fine

656
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:42,000
details of all that too

657
00:26:46,470 --> 00:26:43,760
and then the other event that happened

658
00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:46,480
at ten o'clock that was another event

659
00:26:50,950 --> 00:26:49,760
uh the more you get into these different

660
00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:50,960
events

661
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:53,440
the more you go down this rabbit hole of

662
00:26:57,269 --> 00:26:55,200
how crazy

663
00:27:00,070 --> 00:26:57,279
of stuff was going on that night because

664
00:27:01,669 --> 00:27:00,080
there were separate events um different

665
00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:01,679
things going on at

666
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:04,480
10 o'clock easily

667
00:27:08,310 --> 00:27:06,880
multiple events just then

668
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:08,320
it's

669
00:27:15,430 --> 00:27:12,960
knowing about what was going on that

670
00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:15,440
night um how many different events there

671
00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:16,720
were

672
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:18,880
um as far as if you want to go in with

673
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:20,880
five

674
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:25,200
later um

675
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:27,120
let's go back to the beginning

676
00:27:33,430 --> 00:27:28,320
um

677
00:27:34,950 --> 00:27:33,440
i think march 12

678
00:27:38,789 --> 00:27:34,960
from um

679
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:38,799
kind of my protege uh bill hamilton

680
00:27:44,230 --> 00:27:41,840
uh who was this underground-based

681
00:27:46,870 --> 00:27:44,240
ufo researcher that lived up in paradise

682
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:46,880
valley arizona and he had published a

683
00:27:49,669 --> 00:27:48,880
couple of books on underground bases and

684
00:27:54,710 --> 00:27:49,679
stuff

685
00:27:58,470 --> 00:27:54,720
he was like a big big time guy back in

686
00:28:00,630 --> 00:27:58,480
the ufo 90s and

687
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:00,640
i was friends with him he was a mufon

688
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:03,600
investigator uh he had heard on the

689
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:05,840
internet through i think it was ufo

690
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:07,679
updates that there was a guy here in

691
00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:10,720
town named steve blonder that was seeing

692
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:13,440
ufos every night from his house in a

693
00:28:17,669 --> 00:28:16,080
location in kind of south phoenix called

694
00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:17,679
alatooki

695
00:28:23,029 --> 00:28:20,320
uh and he was looking for somebody to

696
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:23,039
look into it they referred him to mufon

697
00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:25,360
which is normal

698
00:28:31,269 --> 00:28:27,440
channels right channels people in the

699
00:28:33,750 --> 00:28:31,279
mufon uh then he said okay he's seeing

700
00:28:36,549 --> 00:28:33,760
this stuff every night he says tom get

701
00:28:38,470 --> 00:28:36,559
your gear we're gonna go check this guy

702
00:28:41,669 --> 00:28:38,480
out he says there's a ufo there every

703
00:28:44,549 --> 00:28:41,679
night right this lines up what dr lee

704
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:44,559
katai was seeing from her location where

705
00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:48,000
she was filming stuff over in this area

706
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:49,520
periodically

707
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:51,600
and night by night

708
00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:52,720
um

709
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:53,600
so

710
00:28:59,190 --> 00:28:56,640
uh back then i filmed a bunch of daytime

711
00:29:01,750 --> 00:28:59,200
ufos before this

712
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:01,760
and had done some local press but not

713
00:29:05,350 --> 00:29:03,600
too much national

714
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:05,360
um and

715
00:29:08,789 --> 00:29:07,120
bill you know i was kind of getting a

716
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:08,799
little name for myself around the town

717
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:10,960
as a hardcore sky watcher

718
00:29:18,310 --> 00:29:15,120
and 25 years later here we are

719
00:29:20,070 --> 00:29:18,320
and and bill said okay get your gear uh

720
00:29:21,590 --> 00:29:20,080
and then we said oh let's meet at

721
00:29:22,470 --> 00:29:21,600
village labs

722
00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:22,480
um

723
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:24,559
stephen greer is in town he needs to

724
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:27,200
transfer some tapes because village labs

725
00:29:32,789 --> 00:29:30,080
had all this video transfer stuff

726
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:32,799
and computers so anyway we went out and

727
00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:34,480
then we went over to the steve blonder's

728
00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:36,640
house and it was like a circus

729
00:29:39,990 --> 00:29:38,320
we pulled up and there were people

730
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:40,000
running in and out of this house i'm

731
00:29:42,870 --> 00:29:42,000
like wow this is weird

732
00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:42,880
um

733
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:44,640
we felt like this was

734
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:47,039
the ufo version of ghostbusters or

735
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:48,480
something you know

736
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:49,360
like

737
00:29:52,870 --> 00:29:50,720
are worried they're here to film

738
00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:52,880
something or debunk something like tv

739
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:55,120
show that deal but we're guaranteed

740
00:29:59,909 --> 00:29:57,520
something's going to show up

741
00:30:02,389 --> 00:29:59,919
and it did

742
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:02,399
uh so we we come into the house me

743
00:30:06,549 --> 00:30:04,559
stevie says you missed it we're like

744
00:30:08,630 --> 00:30:06,559
what we missed it he goes yeah i

745
00:30:11,029 --> 00:30:08,640
recorded it again so we go up in this

746
00:30:12,789 --> 00:30:11,039
house we watch his footage

747
00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:12,799
almost all of its other footage it's

748
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:14,960
online it's all linked up on my youtube

749
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:16,960
channel it's all there historically but

750
00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:20,480
most of it's out of focus like 90 is

751
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:23,279
uh so i'm i don't want to be an

752
00:30:27,029 --> 00:30:24,880
in this house until my shit's out of

753
00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:27,039
focus so i'm like where are you filming

754
00:30:30,549 --> 00:30:29,120
this from so he takes this out in the

755
00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:30,559
balcony

756
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:32,960
and he's like i'm over usually over here

757
00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:35,039
and he goes there's money points it out

758
00:30:40,149 --> 00:30:37,279
and we see it me and bill go damn

759
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:40,159
damn ain't normal what's that something

760
00:30:45,269 --> 00:30:42,640
weird and orange that don't belong

761
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:45,279
and it's south of town right it's not on

762
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:47,679
the military range

763
00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:51,360
the god damn things over catholic rand

764
00:30:56,230 --> 00:30:54,000
um if it whatever it was the orange

765
00:30:58,710 --> 00:30:56,240
light so i go down

766
00:31:01,190 --> 00:30:58,720
run to the trunk and get out this huge

767
00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:01,200
bag of gear and we go up telescope

768
00:31:06,789 --> 00:31:02,480
camera

769
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:06,799
all this stuff and uh a tripod

770
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:08,640
and anyway i got

771
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:10,880
a system for me and a system for a buddy

772
00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:14,240
so everybody uh tries to record um i'm

773
00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:16,320
the only one to record so i record this

774
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:18,320
or it's south of town

775
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:21,120
bill's camera malfunctioned so we would

776
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:23,039
have had another video that steve

777
00:31:27,190 --> 00:31:25,440
blonder's camera malfunctions or we

778
00:31:29,990 --> 00:31:27,200
would have malfunctioned

779
00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:31,509
but do you guys need to talk or am i

780
00:31:35,669 --> 00:31:33,840
talking too long no no this is good um

781
00:31:37,029 --> 00:31:35,679
the battery thing is something you hear

782
00:31:39,269 --> 00:31:37,039
all the time

783
00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:39,279
you know the battery is just right um so

784
00:31:44,549 --> 00:31:42,880
i we're gonna go like another uh another

785
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:44,559
not more than uh 10 minutes though

786
00:31:49,269 --> 00:31:46,080
because we have we got to get into

787
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:49,279
shane's book that he wrote so uh but

788
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:50,960
we'll park another you know five or ten

789
00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:53,039
minutes or something like that

790
00:31:58,789 --> 00:31:55,919
okay uh i'll wrap it up uh so

791
00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:58,799
yeah we record the orb goes away

792
00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:01,600
and then i'm showing steve blonder how

793
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:04,159
stuff's out of focus with this batman

794
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:05,840
type of autofocus thing that was the

795
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:07,279
thing in the day from

796
00:32:11,590 --> 00:32:09,360
the aperture and then

797
00:32:13,750 --> 00:32:11,600
this light shows up and it's this double

798
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:13,760
light and then the whole thing springs

799
00:32:18,389 --> 00:32:15,840
in front of us and shows up and i record

800
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:18,399
it i didn't think any we thought it was

801
00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:20,480
a pretty interesting sighting i mean

802
00:32:25,750 --> 00:32:23,200
we're adrenaline rush and freaked out

803
00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:25,760
but we didn't really think that much of

804
00:32:29,509 --> 00:32:27,760
it until the next day there our phones

805
00:32:31,509 --> 00:32:29,519
were ringing off the hook

806
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:31,519
and there were thousands of people that

807
00:32:35,590 --> 00:32:33,679
seen something and something shook the

808
00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:35,600
state this night

809
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:38,399
i mean it was a ufo sighting

810
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:39,440
uh

811
00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:42,480
that place this thing this whole event

812
00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:47,509
and then

813
00:32:55,190 --> 00:32:50,320
the power five of us

814
00:32:59,830 --> 00:32:56,389
yeah

815
00:33:02,470 --> 00:32:59,840
so uh before you leave tom uh maybe i'll

816
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:02,480
invite you back uh at another point to

817
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:05,039
talk more about this as well but uh can

818
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:06,720
you talk a little bit about what you

819
00:33:09,269 --> 00:33:07,600
though

820
00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:09,279
what you said you were filming something

821
00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:10,960
lately let's talk a little bit about

822
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:16,389
uh i got out of this you know i got

823
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:18,640
burped out of this in uh

824
00:33:23,110 --> 00:33:21,600
2003 because i filmed a bunch more stuff

825
00:33:24,389 --> 00:33:23,120
and it seemed like i was just knocking

826
00:33:28,549 --> 00:33:24,399
my head against the wall

827
00:33:31,590 --> 00:33:28,559
i came back into it um in 2016

828
00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:31,600
i got out when there was tape and got

829
00:33:37,269 --> 00:33:33,600
back in when there was a

830
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:37,279
vhs or not vhs hd and 4k

831
00:33:41,830 --> 00:33:39,760
uh now what i'm doing is i'm running

832
00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:41,840
surveillance cameras on the top of my

833
00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:44,799
house 24 hours a day in 4k

834
00:33:51,669 --> 00:33:48,960
i also use uh the stuff like the p1000 a

835
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:51,679
thermal camera a couple of uh night

836
00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:53,760
vision cameras and i'm sky watching out

837
00:33:59,430 --> 00:33:57,360
of the back of my yard as hard as i was

838
00:34:01,590 --> 00:33:59,440
when i was 25 years old

839
00:34:03,430 --> 00:34:01,600
and i've networked out with more people

840
00:34:05,830 --> 00:34:03,440
doing the same thing where we're

841
00:34:08,470 --> 00:34:05,840
basically

842
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:08,480
i don't want this is a bad term poor

843
00:34:16,310 --> 00:34:10,320
man's uapx

844
00:34:18,470 --> 00:34:16,320
regular guy working on his garage doing

845
00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:18,480
his version of uapx

846
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:21,760
as another version so when uapx comes

847
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:24,240
out with their report and galileo comes

848
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:25,679
out with theirs

849
00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:28,560
us different networked underground

850
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:30,800
people in the ufo hot spots come out

851
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:33,440
with ours

852
00:34:37,270 --> 00:34:35,440
so that's what i'm doing now that's

853
00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:37,280
where i came from from the phoenix

854
00:34:43,430 --> 00:34:41,200
lights and i've arced over to here

855
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:43,440
excellent well hey tom i really

856
00:34:46,230 --> 00:34:45,280
appreciate you calling in that that was

857
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:46,240
great

858
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:48,240
it added a lot to the show and i i

859
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:50,639
really appreciate that

860
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:52,399
thanks for having me man i really

861
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:54,800
appreciate it i'm uh i'm a pretty

862
00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:57,119
recluse guy i'm hard to talk to hard to

863
00:35:00,950 --> 00:34:58,560
get along with i'm kind of like bob

864
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:00,960
lazar i talked to a few people but

865
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:04,160
but now i keep close friends very close

866
00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:06,960
but not a lot of friends

867
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:09,520
i get it i totally get it but you guys

868
00:35:13,109 --> 00:35:11,040
you guys look like you're doing a great

869
00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:13,119
show so i'll spectator out and thanks

870
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:14,720
for having me

871
00:35:19,510 --> 00:35:17,760
all right tom take care

872
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:19,520
all right i don't know if there's a if

873
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:21,040
there's anything you want to add to that

874
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:23,359
at all great to meet you tom

875
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:24,240
yeah

876
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:26,160
uh if you want to add anything to that

877
00:35:34,310 --> 00:35:28,240
shane or you want to move on to talking

878
00:35:38,790 --> 00:35:36,390
uh no no i really don't have anything to

879
00:35:40,390 --> 00:35:38,800
add other than it's very cool to to hear

880
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:40,400
that there are other people out there

881
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:43,440
doing that kind of a thing

882
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:45,839
and you know the power of the grassroots

883
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:47,520
and stuff and you know when the when

884
00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:49,599
these governments uh reports come out

885
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:51,680
and stuff it'd be great to compare the

886
00:35:57,190 --> 00:35:53,920
data and just see you know who's being

887
00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:57,200
real truly transparent

888
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:01,200
yeah we can be hopeful for that uh yeah

889
00:36:06,069 --> 00:36:03,839
uh that would be nice i mean there seems

890
00:36:08,710 --> 00:36:06,079
to be a lot of forward motion

891
00:36:11,349 --> 00:36:08,720
uh happening and which is kind of

892
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:11,359
exciting so i i think it i think it

893
00:36:16,150 --> 00:36:14,160
could be um on on the right right track

894
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:16,160
and i do understand what tom was talking

895
00:36:19,510 --> 00:36:17,680
about i i've heard about people getting

896
00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:19,520
like burnt out you know they're really

897
00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:21,760
into this and they get burned out um you

898
00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:22,720
know and

899
00:36:26,310 --> 00:36:24,720
uh the feeling of knocking your head

900
00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:26,320
against the wall maybe people are not

901
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:28,160
paying attention and this is good stuff

902
00:36:32,710 --> 00:36:28,800
and

903
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:32,720
ridiculed or whatever it is happening

904
00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:34,880
it's it's not an easy thing to

905
00:36:45,750 --> 00:36:43,349
so uh no and i happily appreciate you

906
00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:45,760
know standing on the shoulders of these

907
00:36:49,190 --> 00:36:47,839
kinds of guys that you know

908
00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:49,200
they're all getting older and there

909
00:36:53,750 --> 00:36:51,839
needs to be a new not that i'm young

910
00:36:56,150 --> 00:36:53,760
but you know there needs to be a new

911
00:36:58,710 --> 00:36:56,160
generation of people to come up and take

912
00:37:00,550 --> 00:36:58,720
this this kind of stuff over so i mean i

913
00:37:02,550 --> 00:37:00,560
really appreciate the likes of tom and

914
00:37:04,870 --> 00:37:02,560
others like that and you know i think

915
00:37:06,950 --> 00:37:04,880
it's incredibly valuable so i do

916
00:37:10,550 --> 00:37:06,960
appreciate that yeah

917
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:10,560
yeah and um i know as i mentioned

918
00:37:16,550 --> 00:37:13,200
earlier there's a really big lag between

919
00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:16,560
us so um when i stop for this silence

920
00:37:19,829 --> 00:37:17,920
it's gonna be a long silence but i'm

921
00:37:22,150 --> 00:37:19,839
gonna ask you to talk about your book

922
00:37:27,670 --> 00:37:22,160
and what made you decide to write that

923
00:37:29,829 --> 00:37:29,030
absolutely

924
00:37:32,069 --> 00:37:29,839
so

925
00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:32,079
um i think the thing that triggered me

926
00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:34,320
most was i i had mentioned before you

927
00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:35,680
know i kind of had all this knowledge

928
00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:37,200
you've done all this research what am i

929
00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:40,320
gonna do with it um added to that you

930
00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:42,960
know the experiences i've had in mufon

931
00:37:48,310 --> 00:37:45,760
and you know i've investigated you know

932
00:37:50,870 --> 00:37:48,320
over a hundred cases and talked to a lot

933
00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:50,880
of people and you know done a lot of

934
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:51,760
things

935
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:53,920
and but the thing that triggered me to

936
00:37:59,829 --> 00:37:56,640
write the book really was

937
00:38:03,109 --> 00:37:59,839
when the ttsa came out

938
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:03,119
uh in december of 2017 and the new york

939
00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:04,560
times article

940
00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:06,960
and we know all that that's accomplished

941
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:09,280
and and to me the most significant thing

942
00:38:12,150 --> 00:38:10,640
it's accomplished

943
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:12,160
is uh

944
00:38:19,349 --> 00:38:16,560
it has uh diminished the ridicule factor

945
00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:19,359
uh for people who want to demonstrate an

946
00:38:23,829 --> 00:38:21,760
interest in this topic and now we've

947
00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:23,839
come to the point in four short years

948
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:26,800
that the actual navy is admitted ufos

949
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:29,200
are real we see a government program

950
00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:30,400
coming up

951
00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:34,560
and um my thought was look wow

952
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:36,960
uh there's a bunch of old guys you know

953
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:39,359
who have been involved with researching

954
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:41,760
ufos for a long time and tough guys you

955
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:43,920
know took the ridicule and all that but

956
00:38:47,349 --> 00:38:45,040
you know they're getting older and

957
00:38:49,829 --> 00:38:47,359
they're passing on and you know

958
00:38:52,470 --> 00:38:49,839
we need a younger generation of people

959
00:38:53,430 --> 00:38:52,480
to kind of pick up this mantle and

960
00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:53,440
and

961
00:38:55,910 --> 00:38:54,320
to me

962
00:38:58,230 --> 00:38:55,920
the release

963
00:38:59,030 --> 00:38:58,240
of that taboo

964
00:39:01,109 --> 00:38:59,040
has

965
00:39:04,710 --> 00:39:01,119
triggered uh

966
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:04,720
uh an onslaught of newly interested

967
00:39:09,990 --> 00:39:05,920
people

968
00:39:11,589 --> 00:39:10,000
young generation my generation and yes

969
00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:11,599
it's um

970
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:14,480
so for me i know that when i first came

971
00:39:17,670 --> 00:39:16,320
into this like my experience with the

972
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:17,680
roswell book

973
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:20,320
i didn't have anything to measure that

974
00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:22,800
against you know i'm saying and again

975
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:26,160
i'm not bashing bill or corso at all i'm

976
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:27,680
just saying

977
00:39:31,510 --> 00:39:29,839
you know it was a bare naked

978
00:39:33,510 --> 00:39:31,520
you know um

979
00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:33,520
introduction to that topic with no

980
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:36,320
context and it kind of weirded me out

981
00:39:39,430 --> 00:39:38,000
okay but now you know i've i've got

982
00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:39,440
context so i

983
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:42,800
look at that book differently but

984
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:46,560
um to me what i wanted to do was help

985
00:39:52,310 --> 00:39:49,920
people that are newly interested to get

986
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:52,320
into the topic without falling down the

987
00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:54,720
crazy rabbit holes that that can be

988
00:40:00,710 --> 00:39:58,320
there you know um i i devote a chapter

989
00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:00,720
to what i call the wheat and chaff of

990
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:03,440
you ufology which is you know the good

991
00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:05,280
information and the bad information we

992
00:40:11,109 --> 00:40:07,440
can talk more about that but

993
00:40:11,990 --> 00:40:11,119
the the concept behind the book is is

994
00:40:14,710 --> 00:40:12,000
you know

995
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:14,720
uh unidentified aerial phenomena and

996
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:16,560
people are now getting familiar with

997
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:19,200
that term instead of ufo and a

998
00:40:23,270 --> 00:40:21,760
beginner's guide to researching so the

999
00:40:26,069 --> 00:40:23,280
idea was to

1000
00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:26,079
you know gather these topics and the

1001
00:40:28,950 --> 00:40:27,280
information

1002
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:28,960
put it in a book that a new interest

1003
00:40:33,829 --> 00:40:30,960
person could take up the book and say

1004
00:40:35,109 --> 00:40:33,839
hey look you know these are the these

1005
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:35,119
are the

1006
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:37,760
issues and you followed

1007
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:40,000
this is the real stuff this is the fake

1008
00:40:46,230 --> 00:40:43,040
stuff what makes good evidence what

1009
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:46,240
makes the good witness and

1010
00:40:51,910 --> 00:40:49,040
you know just i you know to help people

1011
00:40:55,589 --> 00:40:51,920
think critically you know we want to be

1012
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:55,599
skeptical absolutely and i am skeptical

1013
00:41:00,950 --> 00:40:58,319
however we also want to be open-minded

1014
00:41:02,630 --> 00:41:00,960
and so for me like as an investigator i

1015
00:41:06,069 --> 00:41:02,640
i go in with no

1016
00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:06,079
you know i attempt to overcome my biases

1017
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:08,400
and approach an investigation as

1018
00:41:13,750 --> 00:41:11,520
agnostically as i can and

1019
00:41:15,990 --> 00:41:13,760
base it on the evidence so

1020
00:41:18,150 --> 00:41:16,000
you know the it's that mentality that

1021
00:41:20,470 --> 00:41:18,160
i'm trying to encourage so just you know

1022
00:41:21,670 --> 00:41:20,480
i'll just a couple chapters of the book

1023
00:41:23,030 --> 00:41:21,680
you'll you'll kind of get what i'm

1024
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:23,040
talking about

1025
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:25,359
first of all what is uap

1026
00:41:28,550 --> 00:41:27,520
i go into a thorough explanation of what

1027
00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:28,560
it is

1028
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:30,800
and the and the historical context which

1029
00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:34,880
i think is super important right ufos

1030
00:41:39,109 --> 00:41:37,359
is a dirty word or has been a dirty word

1031
00:41:40,710 --> 00:41:39,119
for 70 years

1032
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:40,720
not so much now

1033
00:41:45,270 --> 00:41:43,040
because attitudes change but you know

1034
00:41:47,750 --> 00:41:45,280
knowing the context and the history

1035
00:41:50,309 --> 00:41:47,760
behind it to me is critically important

1036
00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:50,319
then i talk about misidentification

1037
00:41:56,550 --> 00:41:53,599
which is a very common occurrence and it

1038
00:41:58,710 --> 00:41:56,560
represents probably 80 90

1039
00:42:01,589 --> 00:41:58,720
of ufo reports

1040
00:42:04,790 --> 00:42:01,599
and then hoaxes but hoaxes are actually

1041
00:42:06,790 --> 00:42:04,800
a very minuscule part of it right but

1042
00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:06,800
yeah maybe we'll talk more about hoaxes

1043
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:09,760
i i i recategorize there's a couple

1044
00:42:13,990 --> 00:42:11,440
categories of those

1045
00:42:16,309 --> 00:42:14,000
i talk about the scientific method uh

1046
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:16,319
what forms of evidence are good you know

1047
00:42:21,430 --> 00:42:19,440
classic cases uh the wheat and chaff i

1048
00:42:24,150 --> 00:42:21,440
talk about the cover-up

1049
00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:24,160
uh and i i have a favorite little pet

1050
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:26,800
topic within that is is political

1051
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:29,520
science and ufology which is really

1052
00:42:33,750 --> 00:42:30,960
based on

1053
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:33,760
a paper by uh alexander went and raymond

1054
00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:34,880
duvall

1055
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:36,720
two political scientists who wrote a

1056
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:37,760
report

1057
00:42:43,190 --> 00:42:40,319
called or a white paper called ufos and

1058
00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:43,200
sovereignty absolutely brilliant it

1059
00:42:47,190 --> 00:42:45,520
changed the way i saw everything you

1060
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:47,200
know it was fantastic and then

1061
00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:49,520
ultimately following the evidence which

1062
00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:54,000
is what we want to be able to do and so

1063
00:42:59,109 --> 00:42:57,040
again my whole concept was to help a

1064
00:43:02,230 --> 00:42:59,119
newly interested person get acquainted

1065
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:02,240
with the topic avoid the crazy stuff

1066
00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:04,480
and and be able to think critically on

1067
00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:06,400
their own well what you know what what

1068
00:43:12,150 --> 00:43:09,040
is good information what isn't so that's

1069
00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:12,160
really been the concept behind it that's

1070
00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:15,119
excellent and i appreciate

1071
00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:17,119
that you are doing this and there are a

1072
00:43:22,630 --> 00:43:19,680
lot of young people i was corrected uh

1073
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:22,640
by that uh by uh dr michael masters when

1074
00:43:26,710 --> 00:43:24,880
he was on the show he said no no there's

1075
00:43:28,870 --> 00:43:26,720
a lot of young people right now

1076
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:28,880
really looking into this topic deeply i

1077
00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:31,040
have someone coming up a young person

1078
00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:33,599
that uh christina gomez that's uh she's

1079
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:35,440
part of the debrief i think and she's

1080
00:43:41,109 --> 00:43:38,640
coming up and uh i think

1081
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:41,119
let's see in january but um so there are

1082
00:43:45,910 --> 00:43:43,440
a lot of a lot of young people i i think

1083
00:43:48,150 --> 00:43:45,920
it's great again you know hopefully they

1084
00:43:49,750 --> 00:43:48,160
can get the right information i'm going

1085
00:43:51,349 --> 00:43:49,760
to ask you this so

1086
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:51,359
if you're

1087
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:53,200
let's say someone's listening for the

1088
00:43:55,750 --> 00:43:54,960
first or second time

1089
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:55,760
and

1090
00:44:00,069 --> 00:43:58,079
they want to know where to get

1091
00:44:01,030 --> 00:44:00,079
the real information

1092
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:01,040
you know

1093
00:44:04,710 --> 00:44:03,280
do you tell them like leslie's book or

1094
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:04,720
or or something like that i mean what

1095
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:06,640
what do you tell someone you actually

1096
00:44:11,829 --> 00:44:08,480
speak to when it comes to someone

1097
00:44:17,349 --> 00:44:14,950
yeah i definitely recommend um

1098
00:44:20,069 --> 00:44:17,359
leslie's book first and foremost read

1099
00:44:22,309 --> 00:44:20,079
that absolutely that acquaints him with

1100
00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:22,319
significant cases and again is written

1101
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:23,599
in a very

1102
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,880
um

1103
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:26,640
cogent manner

1104
00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:30,960
and it's not sensationalistic and it

1105
00:44:35,510 --> 00:44:33,760
provides evidence and all those things i

1106
00:44:37,990 --> 00:44:35,520
also recommend

1107
00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:38,000
um and this is what i did i followed up

1108
00:44:42,630 --> 00:44:40,400
those two there that book with richard

1109
00:44:45,990 --> 00:44:42,640
dolan's two volume set

1110
00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:46,000
of ufos in the national security state

1111
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:48,000
that again profiles

1112
00:44:53,670 --> 00:44:50,640
hundreds of cases that were in blue book

1113
00:44:57,670 --> 00:44:53,680
but again provides the political

1114
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:57,680
context around those cases and this

1115
00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:58,640
whole

1116
00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:01,200
issue of

1117
00:45:07,910 --> 00:45:02,960
intelligence

1118
00:45:09,670 --> 00:45:07,920
relationship to the to to uf ufology the

1119
00:45:11,829 --> 00:45:09,680
study of ufos

1120
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:11,839
of course ufos himself but it goes

1121
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:13,920
beyond that it's

1122
00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:16,079
you know like you and i

1123
00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:18,720
right here in our listeners people

1124
00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:21,280
demonstrating an interest in ufos was a

1125
00:45:25,589 --> 00:45:22,800
real

1126
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:25,599
bur under the saddle of uh the

1127
00:45:30,309 --> 00:45:28,160
government for a long time right so

1128
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:30,319
again just being aware of the context of

1129
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:32,880
this kind of stuff can be really helpful

1130
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:34,560
in interpreting the information that you

1131
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:36,960
read but yeah i definitely say you know

1132
00:45:41,510 --> 00:45:39,760
go to go read a book like that you know

1133
00:45:42,710 --> 00:45:41,520
those books

1134
00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:42,720
um

1135
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:45,440
i tell people stay away from

1136
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:47,280
you know the the

1137
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:50,880
channels that just post video and leave

1138
00:45:54,230 --> 00:45:52,560
it up to you to decide whether it's real

1139
00:45:56,550 --> 00:45:54,240
or not because

1140
00:45:59,109 --> 00:45:56,560
you know most the time it's not and

1141
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:59,119
frankly some of them are completely open

1142
00:46:01,910 --> 00:46:00,880
about that and then others trying to

1143
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:01,920
hide that

1144
00:46:07,589 --> 00:46:05,040
um and i i i equate that to a hoaxing

1145
00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:07,599
and i guess i better qualify it you know

1146
00:46:11,349 --> 00:46:09,680
if a channel knowingly puts up stuff

1147
00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:11,359
that they know is not a ufo but it looks

1148
00:46:16,710 --> 00:46:13,440
like it and it's cool and they want hits

1149
00:46:18,870 --> 00:46:16,720
to me that's a hoax now there there's no

1150
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:18,880
doubt people who in earnest post things

1151
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:21,040
that end up not being genuine but they

1152
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:22,800
don't know that that's not to me that's

1153
00:46:26,829 --> 00:46:24,800
not a hoax that's just

1154
00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:26,839
purveying misinformation or

1155
00:46:31,829 --> 00:46:29,920
disinformation or it's just the act of

1156
00:46:35,190 --> 00:46:31,839
of you know

1157
00:46:38,630 --> 00:46:35,200
learning or not knowing and you know it

1158
00:46:41,349 --> 00:46:38,640
it's very difficult to chase down the

1159
00:46:42,470 --> 00:46:41,359
provenance of a video that's posted you

1160
00:46:44,710 --> 00:46:42,480
know on the internet

1161
00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:44,720
um even if somebody wants to take the

1162
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:46,640
time to try and chase that down and

1163
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:48,720
verify i mean it's very difficult to do

1164
00:46:54,069 --> 00:46:50,400
so i don't blame people for not doing

1165
00:46:56,309 --> 00:46:54,079
that but i just say you know avoid

1166
00:46:58,150 --> 00:46:56,319
those kinds of things look for look for

1167
00:46:59,510 --> 00:46:58,160
serious information from credible

1168
00:47:02,950 --> 00:46:59,520
sources so

1169
00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:02,960
sources you know um

1170
00:47:06,950 --> 00:47:04,800
and you always

1171
00:47:10,230 --> 00:47:06,960
have to take that source with a grain of

1172
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:10,240
salt right so government there's many

1173
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:13,200
many hundreds of wonderful documents

1174
00:47:17,670 --> 00:47:14,960
from the 40s on

1175
00:47:19,910 --> 00:47:17,680
that clearly articulate articulate the

1176
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:19,920
reality of ufos in my mind that's

1177
00:47:22,950 --> 00:47:21,520
already been disclosed that's that's

1178
00:47:25,030 --> 00:47:22,960
nothing

1179
00:47:26,230 --> 00:47:25,040
and and some of those reports are good

1180
00:47:28,710 --> 00:47:26,240
but on the other hand you got to be

1181
00:47:30,630 --> 00:47:28,720
careful because we know that the united

1182
00:47:33,670 --> 00:47:30,640
states air force particularly with blue

1183
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:33,680
book was a misinformation campaign and

1184
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:35,520
so you've got to you know you just got

1185
00:47:40,390 --> 00:47:38,160
to use your common sense set your bs

1186
00:47:41,190 --> 00:47:40,400
meter i talk about in the book

1187
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:41,200
um

1188
00:47:46,230 --> 00:47:43,760
yeah and then you know other sources so

1189
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:46,240
um i i guess you know if it seems too

1190
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:48,880
good to be true it probably is uh you

1191
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:51,119
just have to be careful but again i go

1192
00:47:55,829 --> 00:47:52,880
into a lot of points there in the book

1193
00:47:57,430 --> 00:47:55,839
how to identify what's quality

1194
00:47:58,710 --> 00:47:57,440
information what

1195
00:48:00,069 --> 00:47:58,720
isn't

1196
00:48:02,230 --> 00:48:00,079
yeah and that kind of goes along with

1197
00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:02,240
sightings too by the way uh the

1198
00:48:05,190 --> 00:48:04,079
suggestion for books

1199
00:48:07,670 --> 00:48:05,200
um

1200
00:48:10,230 --> 00:48:07,680
up here also is valleys dimensions

1201
00:48:13,109 --> 00:48:10,240
confrontations and revelations passport

1202
00:48:14,950 --> 00:48:13,119
to magonia uh john keels operation

1203
00:48:18,549 --> 00:48:14,960
trojan horse those are all good books as

1204
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:18,559
well um and thank you for that chris um

1205
00:48:21,270 --> 00:48:19,440
but

1206
00:48:24,630 --> 00:48:21,280
you know when it comes to when someone

1207
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:24,640
has a sighting you know for instance um

1208
00:48:30,230 --> 00:48:27,839
i had a sighting a while back and i i

1209
00:48:32,790 --> 00:48:30,240
showed it to a bunch of people it's 90

1210
00:48:35,829 --> 00:48:32,800
chance it's a drone you know most likely

1211
00:48:37,349 --> 00:48:35,839
a drone but it was it was a fabulous uh

1212
00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:37,359
video i've had a lot of people look at

1213
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:38,880
it um

1214
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:39,760
but

1215
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,280
you know i mean i didn't

1216
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:43,680
run and say this is definitely a ufo

1217
00:48:47,589 --> 00:48:45,520
it's it's you know it's definitely you

1218
00:48:50,230 --> 00:48:47,599
know from out of this world or whatever

1219
00:48:52,470 --> 00:48:50,240
you know you you it's really good to

1220
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:52,480
pass something that you have if you are

1221
00:48:57,109 --> 00:48:54,880
lucky enough to film it pass it along to

1222
00:48:59,430 --> 00:48:57,119
someone i i sent mine to mark deantonio

1223
00:49:01,270 --> 00:48:59,440
for one and you know he looked at it and

1224
00:49:02,870 --> 00:49:01,280
said you know it looks like a drone and

1225
00:49:04,630 --> 00:49:02,880
acts like a drone you know like looks

1226
00:49:05,430 --> 00:49:04,640
like a duck acts like a duck must be a

1227
00:49:07,990 --> 00:49:05,440
duck

1228
00:49:09,829 --> 00:49:08,000
so uh but it did some it did a couple of

1229
00:49:12,390 --> 00:49:09,839
weird things and the wind was really

1230
00:49:14,549 --> 00:49:12,400
high wind too that night so it was weird

1231
00:49:16,470 --> 00:49:14,559
that there was a drone flying around

1232
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:16,480
but it mostly was

1233
00:49:21,190 --> 00:49:18,319
so you know i mean one of the things i

1234
00:49:23,510 --> 00:49:21,200
tell people too and it's not my advice

1235
00:49:26,309 --> 00:49:23,520
it's one i've heard from other people

1236
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:26,319
that i respect is that if you see

1237
00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:27,599
something

1238
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:29,760
uh immediately as quick as you can and

1239
00:49:34,069 --> 00:49:31,440
you don't have a camera or whatever

1240
00:49:36,309 --> 00:49:34,079
write down everything you can the time

1241
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:36,319
you know what the weather was uh

1242
00:49:40,950 --> 00:49:39,359
everything what you saw draw a picture

1243
00:49:42,390 --> 00:49:40,960
you know again if you don't have a

1244
00:49:44,069 --> 00:49:42,400
camera you know draw a picture of what

1245
00:49:45,589 --> 00:49:44,079
you saw right away because your memory

1246
00:49:47,589 --> 00:49:45,599
will right you know

1247
00:49:49,829 --> 00:49:47,599
it'll change things around on you so

1248
00:49:51,829 --> 00:49:49,839
it's good to do it right away and don't

1249
00:49:52,790 --> 00:49:51,839
talk to any other witnesses just do your

1250
00:49:55,109 --> 00:49:52,800
own thing

1251
00:49:57,829 --> 00:49:55,119
um because when people start sharing

1252
00:49:59,190 --> 00:49:57,839
something it kind of blurs it as well

1253
00:50:01,349 --> 00:49:59,200
blurs your memory

1254
00:50:03,349 --> 00:50:01,359
like playing telephone

1255
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:03,359
yeah yeah

1256
00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:05,520
so we got about five minutes left here

1257
00:50:09,910 --> 00:50:08,160
yeah and exactly so

1258
00:50:10,790 --> 00:50:09,920
yeah

1259
00:50:13,750 --> 00:50:10,800
um

1260
00:50:16,390 --> 00:50:13,760
and so i want i i guess

1261
00:50:18,549 --> 00:50:16,400
i would like to um ask you a little bit

1262
00:50:20,069 --> 00:50:18,559
about the mufon boot camp i was out

1263
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:20,079
there and you were there that was uh

1264
00:50:24,870 --> 00:50:22,640
that was really fantastic oh yeah uh

1265
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:24,880
and so is there one gonna is there

1266
00:50:28,470 --> 00:50:26,880
another one gonna happen in the next

1267
00:50:31,910 --> 00:50:28,480
year or so do you know when that's gonna

1268
00:50:36,230 --> 00:50:34,150
yep it's gonna be uh the first week of

1269
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:36,240
november 2022

1270
00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:38,400
uh it will be our fourth i think our

1271
00:50:41,430 --> 00:50:39,280
fourth

1272
00:50:43,990 --> 00:50:41,440
year in a row on the boot camp glad you

1273
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:44,000
were there that was very cool it was uh

1274
00:50:49,430 --> 00:50:46,480
um you know great to have you there as

1275
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:49,440
well as we had some folks from vice tv

1276
00:50:55,270 --> 00:50:53,040
they came and um just posted an article

1277
00:50:56,309 --> 00:50:55,280
on that yeah the other day

1278
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:56,319
about their

1279
00:51:01,829 --> 00:50:58,720
experience here at the boot camp and and

1280
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:01,839
so we what we do is we offer about 40

1281
00:51:05,910 --> 00:51:04,960
seats to um anybody that would like to

1282
00:51:09,109 --> 00:51:05,920
attend

1283
00:51:10,390 --> 00:51:09,119
and uh it's over uh uh

1284
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:10,400
a two day

1285
00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:13,359
uh weekend type thing we do a half day

1286
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:15,280
in the classroom and then half day out

1287
00:51:19,190 --> 00:51:16,480
in the field

1288
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:19,200
and we talk about topics like you know

1289
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:22,000
interviewing skills which is taught

1290
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:24,000
by two police officers

1291
00:51:29,349 --> 00:51:26,800
who are also mufon investigators uh we

1292
00:51:32,069 --> 00:51:29,359
talk about how to actually do cases and

1293
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:32,079
go through our case management system uh

1294
00:51:37,109 --> 00:51:34,319
we talk about some extraordinary cases

1295
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:37,119
and what makes the the the case

1296
00:51:42,069 --> 00:51:38,880
extraordinary the type of data that

1297
00:51:45,510 --> 00:51:42,079
there is we have um a mental health

1298
00:51:48,390 --> 00:51:45,520
professional uh talk about

1299
00:51:51,670 --> 00:51:48,400
you know healthy and unhealthy mental

1300
00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:51,680
states of people and things that you can

1301
00:51:56,069 --> 00:51:54,160
do to help you determine you know a

1302
00:51:57,829 --> 00:51:56,079
level of credibility of the witnesses

1303
00:51:59,910 --> 00:51:57,839
that you're talking to

1304
00:52:02,630 --> 00:51:59,920
and just you know uh

1305
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:02,640
photo and video analysis do a wonderful

1306
00:52:08,950 --> 00:52:05,760
presentation on that and

1307
00:52:10,950 --> 00:52:08,960
the the unique character of cameras and

1308
00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:10,960
how they are are

1309
00:52:14,950 --> 00:52:12,720
you know

1310
00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:14,960
wrought with with um

1311
00:52:20,230 --> 00:52:17,440
you know frailties that can create

1312
00:52:22,150 --> 00:52:20,240
images that are confounding but you know

1313
00:52:25,750 --> 00:52:22,160
they're just camera artifacts things

1314
00:52:28,309 --> 00:52:25,760
like that but um just very useful tools

1315
00:52:30,150 --> 00:52:28,319
uh very specific stuff and then in the

1316
00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:30,160
field

1317
00:52:36,069 --> 00:52:32,480
we've had uh training by

1318
00:52:37,270 --> 00:52:36,079
two federal uh officers law enforcement

1319
00:52:39,829 --> 00:52:37,280
um

1320
00:52:42,150 --> 00:52:39,839
known as the navajo rangers

1321
00:52:45,829 --> 00:52:42,160
who have literally had thousands of

1322
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:45,839
hours of investigation but these two

1323
00:52:50,230 --> 00:52:47,760
gentlemen are

1324
00:52:52,069 --> 00:52:50,240
some of the most awesome people you ever

1325
00:52:55,030 --> 00:52:52,079
meet and their experiences are

1326
00:52:58,069 --> 00:52:55,040
unbelievable they are actually known as

1327
00:53:02,069 --> 00:52:58,079
the paranormal rangers and it was their

1328
00:53:03,670 --> 00:53:02,079
job to investigate paranormal cases

1329
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:03,680
within

1330
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:06,960
the the native american community and

1331
00:53:12,549 --> 00:53:09,599
and they've got stories that just blow

1332
00:53:13,349 --> 00:53:12,559
your mind absolutely blow your mind so

1333
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:13,359
um

1334
00:53:18,309 --> 00:53:15,760
but they also teach us how to you know

1335
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:18,319
forensically process a crash site i mean

1336
00:53:21,990 --> 00:53:20,640
who gets that kind of training you know

1337
00:53:23,829 --> 00:53:22,000
awesome yeah

1338
00:53:25,829 --> 00:53:23,839
yeah uh speaking of that that's a good

1339
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:25,839
segue into me saying that next week's

1340
00:53:30,870 --> 00:53:29,040
guest is john dover one of the uh

1341
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:30,880
navajo rangers he'll be on right here

1342
00:53:34,309 --> 00:53:32,480
next week oh

1343
00:53:36,950 --> 00:53:34,319
yeah

1344
00:53:40,390 --> 00:53:36,960
excellent well i think

1345
00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:40,400
yeah that should be great he's awesome

1346
00:53:45,750 --> 00:53:43,200
um why don't you uh give the uh the name

1347
00:53:49,670 --> 00:53:45,760
of your book i did put the book in the

1348
00:53:52,549 --> 00:53:49,680
in the link uh to the text for this show

1349
00:53:57,829 --> 00:53:52,559
so the name of the book and um it's on

1350
00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:00,549
yep yep yep it's uh

1351
00:54:06,950 --> 00:54:03,200
uh unidentified aerial phenomena a

1352
00:54:09,829 --> 00:54:06,960
beginner's guide to researching ufos

1353
00:54:11,349 --> 00:54:09,839
uh with an awesome introduction my good

1354
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:11,359
friend

1355
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:12,319
um

1356
00:54:17,349 --> 00:54:15,599
jason mcclellan so this might be my name

1357
00:54:21,190 --> 00:54:17,359
or the name of the book and find it

1358
00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:23,270
excellent all right shane well thank you

1359
00:54:28,150 --> 00:54:25,839
so much it's it's been a real pleasure

1360
00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:28,160
talking to you tonight and uh well next

1361
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:29,839
time you come on we'll have to take care

1362
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:31,359
of that lag so we don't have that

1363
00:54:36,150 --> 00:54:33,920
anymore but anyway thanks i really

1364
00:54:38,309 --> 00:54:36,160
appreciate it

1365
00:54:41,349 --> 00:54:38,319
all right everyone so hang in there

1366
00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:41,359
thank you so much for having me

1367
00:54:45,990 --> 00:54:44,400
yep thank you all right

1368
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:46,000
all right everyone so we'll be right

1369
00:54:52,069 --> 00:54:49,680
back um right after these messages and

1370
00:54:53,030 --> 00:54:52,079
for those of you watching it live live

1371
00:54:55,349 --> 00:54:53,040
stream

1372
00:55:11,600 --> 00:54:55,359
it's just music for three minutes i'll

1373
00:57:02,250 --> 00:55:35,940
[Music]

1374
00:57:20,990 --> 00:57:04,710
[Applause]

1375
00:57:57,349 --> 00:57:32,760
[Music]

1376
00:58:00,230 --> 00:57:58,870
all right

1377
00:58:02,630 --> 00:58:00,240
we are back

1378
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:02,640
and you know just watched my guest uh

1379
00:58:06,829 --> 00:58:05,760
chris o'brien get up from the table and

1380
00:58:10,950 --> 00:58:06,839
walk

1381
00:58:12,549 --> 00:58:10,960
away so hopefully he'll be back chris if

1382
00:58:14,150 --> 00:58:12,559
you have the uh

1383
00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:14,160
if you have the speakers on in your

1384
00:58:19,750 --> 00:58:16,799
house i hope you hear me and come back

1385
00:58:21,510 --> 00:58:19,760
but anyway uh that was interesting and

1386
00:58:25,589 --> 00:58:21,520
i'm not sure what that was here he is

1387
00:58:31,589 --> 00:58:29,510
where did you go chris

1388
00:58:34,150 --> 00:58:31,599
loved the music

1389
00:58:35,750 --> 00:58:34,160
yeah yeah really like the music

1390
00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:35,760
yeah that's kerry lloyd wright house

1391
00:58:39,750 --> 00:58:38,240
white house in uh ireland he does music

1392
00:58:42,789 --> 00:58:39,760
for movies

1393
00:58:45,990 --> 00:58:42,799
so um and he gave he does all the music

1394
00:58:49,349 --> 00:58:46,000
for this for this show so great guy

1395
00:58:51,109 --> 00:58:49,359
um but anyway welcome chris we had a a

1396
00:58:52,069 --> 00:58:51,119
nice i had a nice visit with you as

1397
00:58:53,829 --> 00:58:52,079
always

1398
00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:53,839
it was a it was fun to see you out there

1399
00:58:57,430 --> 00:58:55,920
in sedona one of one of the most

1400
00:59:01,030 --> 00:58:57,440
beautiful places i think in in the

1401
00:59:06,230 --> 00:59:04,230
can you hear me now

1402
00:59:08,309 --> 00:59:06,240
i'm trying to figure out which is uh

1403
00:59:11,349 --> 00:59:08,319
better either listening to the speakers

1404
00:59:15,030 --> 00:59:11,359
on the laptop or headphones headphones

1405
00:59:16,549 --> 00:59:15,040
had about a four second delay maybe

1406
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:16,559
you know i'm wondering if it might make

1407
00:59:20,630 --> 00:59:18,480
it really difficult

1408
00:59:22,470 --> 00:59:20,640
yeah it's possible it could be on my end

1409
00:59:24,549 --> 00:59:22,480
in the hotel i don't know i didn't get a

1410
00:59:27,109 --> 00:59:24,559
chance yeah

1411
00:59:28,309 --> 00:59:27,119
it it sounds way better coming through

1412
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:28,319
the speaker

1413
00:59:32,470 --> 00:59:30,240
uh with the headphones for some reason

1414
00:59:34,230 --> 00:59:32,480
there's like a

1415
00:59:37,589 --> 00:59:34,240
you know um

1416
00:59:39,430 --> 00:59:37,599
i i i would have it would have

1417
00:59:41,190 --> 00:59:39,440
driven me crazy before the end of the

1418
00:59:43,270 --> 00:59:41,200
year

1419
00:59:45,589 --> 00:59:43,280
this is much better

1420
00:59:46,390 --> 00:59:45,599
yeah so chris what are you up to these

1421
00:59:49,270 --> 00:59:46,400
days

1422
00:59:51,190 --> 00:59:49,280
um but i know you're uh

1423
00:59:52,870 --> 00:59:51,200
yeah but can you talk a little bit about

1424
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:52,880
the the film you're working on or is

1425
00:59:58,150 --> 00:59:54,960
that is that something that has to be

1426
01:00:02,710 --> 01:00:01,670
i haven't signed anything but um

1427
01:00:06,069 --> 01:00:02,720
yeah

1428
01:00:09,030 --> 01:00:06,079
let's put it this way it's uh

1429
01:00:12,150 --> 01:00:09,040
i've worked with ron james uh on and off

1430
01:00:14,470 --> 01:00:12,160
for almost 20 years uh

1431
01:00:16,549 --> 01:00:14,480
i met him here in sedona

1432
01:00:18,950 --> 01:00:16,559
which is where i'm currently

1433
01:00:21,510 --> 01:00:18,960
uh talking to you from um i met him here

1434
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:21,520
back in in 2004

1435
01:00:28,150 --> 01:00:25,200
when he volunteered to videotape

1436
01:00:30,870 --> 01:00:28,160
a co a little mini conference uh i was

1437
01:00:33,990 --> 01:00:30,880
having uh featuring

1438
01:00:37,190 --> 01:00:34,000
barbara and dennis tedlock who

1439
01:00:38,630 --> 01:00:37,200
are eminent mayan scholars and uh dennis

1440
01:00:41,990 --> 01:00:38,640
was the one that actually did the

1441
01:00:44,549 --> 01:00:42,000
english translation of the popovu which

1442
01:00:47,510 --> 01:00:44,559
is the only surviving uh book really

1443
01:00:49,910 --> 01:00:47,520
about you know from from the maya world

1444
01:00:52,390 --> 01:00:49,920
um and anyway uh

1445
01:00:54,549 --> 01:00:52,400
he said look if you let me if you let me

1446
01:00:56,549 --> 01:00:54,559
videotape this um

1447
01:00:58,710 --> 01:00:56,559
you know you can get copies from me to

1448
01:00:59,589 --> 01:00:58,720
sell and and and then i can sell them

1449
01:01:02,789 --> 01:00:59,599
too

1450
01:01:05,990 --> 01:01:02,799
uh and and so

1451
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:06,000
thus began the relationship and uh

1452
01:01:10,630 --> 01:01:08,880
you know back in 2012 we did a

1453
01:01:13,349 --> 01:01:10,640
a documentary called it could happen

1454
01:01:15,270 --> 01:01:13,359
tomorrow which was a compilation kind of

1455
01:01:17,109 --> 01:01:15,280
a

1456
01:01:19,589 --> 01:01:17,119
short piece uh

1457
01:01:22,069 --> 01:01:19,599
based on a four dvd set that we did

1458
01:01:24,230 --> 01:01:22,079
called the disclosure dialogues and we

1459
01:01:26,549 --> 01:01:24,240
think you know i

1460
01:01:28,950 --> 01:01:26,559
said hey we should do a standalone you

1461
01:01:30,150 --> 01:01:28,960
know 75 80 minute piece that encompasses

1462
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:30,160
the whole thing

1463
01:01:35,510 --> 01:01:32,240
uh kind of a you know the

1464
01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:35,520
best of and and it won the eevee awards

1465
01:01:40,950 --> 01:01:38,799
for best feature film and and

1466
01:01:42,150 --> 01:01:40,960
the people's choice award i was very

1467
01:01:44,309 --> 01:01:42,160
proud of that

1468
01:01:46,789 --> 01:01:44,319
and uh once

1469
01:01:49,109 --> 01:01:46,799
he's he's he's a very good

1470
01:01:51,190 --> 01:01:49,119
filmmaker he's he's

1471
01:01:53,349 --> 01:01:51,200
hasn't really done something on this

1472
01:01:56,230 --> 01:01:53,359
level this is going to be a

1473
01:01:57,430 --> 01:01:56,240
a major platform

1474
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:57,440
project

1475
01:02:00,870 --> 01:01:59,680
um there's some

1476
01:02:05,029 --> 01:02:00,880
you know some

1477
01:02:09,349 --> 01:02:07,829
you know behind this whole thing and uh

1478
01:02:13,910 --> 01:02:09,359
we're

1479
01:02:14,789 --> 01:02:13,920
uh working on the interviews and

1480
01:02:16,549 --> 01:02:14,799
and

1481
01:02:17,829 --> 01:02:16,559
sort of cataloging what people are

1482
01:02:20,950 --> 01:02:17,839
saying and

1483
01:02:23,349 --> 01:02:20,960
you know dividing it up into categories

1484
01:02:25,910 --> 01:02:23,359
and stuff sort of a preliminary

1485
01:02:28,150 --> 01:02:25,920
you know general rough cut work um that

1486
01:02:29,829 --> 01:02:28,160
we're working on so

1487
01:02:31,750 --> 01:02:29,839
um it's

1488
01:02:32,950 --> 01:02:31,760
it's interesting getting back into this

1489
01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:32,960
particular

1490
01:02:38,150 --> 01:02:35,920
realm which i haven't been in for seven

1491
01:02:39,190 --> 01:02:38,160
eight years um i've done you know some

1492
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:39,200
little

1493
01:02:44,069 --> 01:02:42,160
stuff but uh and i i was involved with

1494
01:02:45,990 --> 01:02:44,079
uh james fox's

1495
01:02:47,990 --> 01:02:46,000
uh movie uh

1496
01:02:50,870 --> 01:02:48,000
that final

1497
01:02:53,829 --> 01:02:50,880
you know four or five months was was

1498
01:02:55,990 --> 01:02:53,839
was real difficult and i i'm i was very

1499
01:02:57,750 --> 01:02:56,000
uh humbled that he asked me to come in

1500
01:02:58,630 --> 01:02:57,760
and help him with that and

1501
01:03:00,390 --> 01:02:58,640
you know

1502
01:03:02,950 --> 01:03:00,400
somebody joked and said oh you're

1503
01:03:06,789 --> 01:03:02,960
working on another future

1504
01:03:10,870 --> 01:03:06,799
what are you a director whisperer

1505
01:03:12,309 --> 01:03:10,880
rick rubin of the ufo movie world

1506
01:03:14,069 --> 01:03:12,319
yeah

1507
01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:14,079
you know i do know

1508
01:03:18,470 --> 01:03:16,559
where some of the bodies are buried and

1509
01:03:20,630 --> 01:03:18,480
you know i've been

1510
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:20,640
taking notes and

1511
01:03:24,789 --> 01:03:22,319
you know i'm

1512
01:03:27,190 --> 01:03:24,799
i might know

1513
01:03:31,430 --> 01:03:27,200
you know a good majority of the players

1514
01:03:34,870 --> 01:03:33,190
on some level or

1515
01:03:36,470 --> 01:03:34,880
another we're you know we're dealing

1516
01:03:38,630 --> 01:03:36,480
with a topic here

1517
01:03:41,349 --> 01:03:38,640
that is wide open it's like the wild

1518
01:03:43,510 --> 01:03:41,359
west and ufology uh

1519
01:03:45,829 --> 01:03:43,520
and um

1520
01:03:47,349 --> 01:03:45,839
you know there's

1521
01:03:50,069 --> 01:03:47,359
definitely

1522
01:03:52,069 --> 01:03:50,079
a need for a

1523
01:03:55,510 --> 01:03:52,079
kind of where are we now sort of

1524
01:03:58,390 --> 01:03:56,470
uh

1525
01:04:01,029 --> 01:03:58,400
no i agree i mean that that can kind of

1526
01:04:03,589 --> 01:04:01,039
be our one of our topics tonight like

1527
01:04:05,910 --> 01:04:03,599
things that have really changed a lot in

1528
01:04:07,430 --> 01:04:05,920
the last actually the last time you were

1529
01:04:09,510 --> 01:04:07,440
on the show i think you you were out to

1530
01:04:12,069 --> 01:04:09,520
visit me i i believe maybe or maybe it's

1531
01:04:16,309 --> 01:04:12,079
been since then no i think we had one

1532
01:04:17,190 --> 01:04:16,319
show a couple years ago um yeah but

1533
01:04:21,589 --> 01:04:17,200
uh

1534
01:04:24,829 --> 01:04:21,599
the

1535
01:04:29,990 --> 01:04:27,670
uh permission for those uh new york

1536
01:04:31,910 --> 01:04:30,000
times articles to go out with whatever

1537
01:04:35,990 --> 01:04:31,920
machinations went on

1538
01:04:38,230 --> 01:04:36,000
behind the scenes on that and and and

1539
01:04:41,190 --> 01:04:38,240
of course they had to eat some crow

1540
01:04:44,470 --> 01:04:41,200
because of the the erroneous attribution

1541
01:04:46,230 --> 01:04:44,480
of uh atep's responsibilities to ossep

1542
01:04:48,710 --> 01:04:46,240
and you know i mean there were some

1543
01:04:51,270 --> 01:04:48,720
problems there

1544
01:04:53,349 --> 01:04:51,280
as there are with any

1545
01:04:55,910 --> 01:04:53,359
programmed release of information this

1546
01:04:58,150 --> 01:04:55,920
is all part obviously part of a

1547
01:05:00,950 --> 01:04:58,160
um you know a program of the next

1548
01:05:03,430 --> 01:05:00,960
generation going to the cold warrior

1549
01:05:05,430 --> 01:05:03,440
uh you know daddy's hey

1550
01:05:08,230 --> 01:05:05,440
you know you've been retired now for 20

1551
01:05:10,789 --> 01:05:08,240
years you know with

1552
01:05:12,150 --> 01:05:10,799
we'll take care of it from here

1553
01:05:13,990 --> 01:05:12,160
you know and they know they've got to

1554
01:05:16,789 --> 01:05:14,000
get ahead of the issue

1555
01:05:19,430 --> 01:05:16,799
god forbid something happens somebody

1556
01:05:21,190 --> 01:05:19,440
back engineers something or

1557
01:05:23,430 --> 01:05:21,200
something

1558
01:05:26,150 --> 01:05:23,440
shows up unannounced and doesn't give

1559
01:05:27,430 --> 01:05:26,160
them any opportunity to put a spin on it

1560
01:05:29,349 --> 01:05:27,440
i mean they

1561
01:05:30,789 --> 01:05:29,359
they realize that

1562
01:05:32,630 --> 01:05:30,799
you know when you really think about it

1563
01:05:34,549 --> 01:05:32,640
they're

1564
01:05:35,750 --> 01:05:34,559
the governments of the world do not

1565
01:05:37,190 --> 01:05:35,760
appear

1566
01:05:38,470 --> 01:05:37,200
to be

1567
01:05:39,990 --> 01:05:38,480
ready

1568
01:05:42,630 --> 01:05:40,000
for

1569
01:05:44,150 --> 01:05:42,640
you know some arrival let's say or some

1570
01:05:45,109 --> 01:05:44,160
discovery

1571
01:05:47,190 --> 01:05:45,119
uh

1572
01:05:52,150 --> 01:05:47,200
an announcement about antarctica

1573
01:05:54,230 --> 01:05:52,160
something on the backside of the moon um

1574
01:05:57,029 --> 01:05:54,240
you know all these things are

1575
01:05:59,670 --> 01:05:57,039
it's all coming to a head so i i think

1576
01:06:01,670 --> 01:05:59,680
that the powers that they have a real

1577
01:06:04,230 --> 01:06:01,680
understanding of their need

1578
01:06:05,270 --> 01:06:04,240
uh to start to control the narrative a

1579
01:06:06,710 --> 01:06:05,280
little and

1580
01:06:09,109 --> 01:06:06,720
and uh you know

1581
01:06:13,910 --> 01:06:09,119
rebrand the whole thing so it's

1582
01:06:16,230 --> 01:06:13,920
palatable to you know to the surviving

1583
01:06:19,589 --> 01:06:16,240
you know baby boomer scientists and

1584
01:06:20,630 --> 01:06:19,599
stuff and government people uh uap it

1585
01:06:25,589 --> 01:06:20,640
sounds

1586
01:06:28,069 --> 01:06:25,599
nebulous there's no it's a phenomena

1587
01:06:30,710 --> 01:06:28,079
instead of an object it's a phenomenon

1588
01:06:33,589 --> 01:06:30,720
george carlin would be going nuts right

1589
01:06:35,430 --> 01:06:33,599
now yeah he was really good with i i

1590
01:06:38,710 --> 01:06:35,440
mean i could just see

1591
01:06:40,870 --> 01:06:38,720
what i could hear in my head is his his

1592
01:06:44,029 --> 01:06:40,880
routine on this and

1593
01:06:47,349 --> 01:06:44,039
you know i i've been accused of being

1594
01:06:50,470 --> 01:06:47,359
a bit droll and

1595
01:06:52,630 --> 01:06:50,480
and dismissive and mealy mouth and

1596
01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:52,640
people and things and places and

1597
01:06:55,990 --> 01:06:54,480
situations and

1598
01:06:57,430 --> 01:06:56,000
um

1599
01:06:59,270 --> 01:06:57,440
but

1600
01:07:02,069 --> 01:06:59,280
you know i feel like i'm a trickster in

1601
01:07:03,349 --> 01:07:02,079
this whole thing and i i really feel

1602
01:07:04,870 --> 01:07:03,359
again

1603
01:07:07,270 --> 01:07:04,880
that

1604
01:07:08,789 --> 01:07:07,280
what a better time for this type of

1605
01:07:11,029 --> 01:07:08,799
trickster-ish

1606
01:07:11,829 --> 01:07:11,039
atmosphere to be created

1607
01:07:13,349 --> 01:07:11,839
uh

1608
01:07:15,910 --> 01:07:13,359
then

1609
01:07:16,870 --> 01:07:15,920
you know the years around donald trump i

1610
01:07:19,190 --> 01:07:16,880
mean there's

1611
01:07:22,069 --> 01:07:19,200
is there something in the air

1612
01:07:24,950 --> 01:07:22,079
what what's going on here man uh are we

1613
01:07:32,470 --> 01:07:26,870
yeah see you mentioned that and the

1614
01:07:36,870 --> 01:07:34,950
hey uh someone posted this question here

1615
01:07:39,910 --> 01:07:36,880
are you familiar with the

1616
01:07:42,630 --> 01:07:39,920
ed the edward cigar and salida and

1617
01:07:44,309 --> 01:07:42,640
salida 1995.

1618
01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:44,319
yeah

1619
01:07:47,990 --> 01:07:46,000
is there a reason that

1620
01:07:50,710 --> 01:07:48,000
did you do work on that or something

1621
01:07:53,910 --> 01:07:50,720
i've actually uh duplicated that exact

1622
01:07:56,230 --> 01:07:53,920
effect that we saw even though

1623
01:07:58,870 --> 01:07:56,240
i was able to

1624
01:08:00,710 --> 01:07:58,880
i think i got 23 witnesses that saw

1625
01:08:04,309 --> 01:08:00,720
something that day

1626
01:08:05,990 --> 01:08:04,319
but then i've also been able to

1627
01:08:07,190 --> 01:08:06,000
duplicate that

1628
01:08:07,910 --> 01:08:07,200
uh

1629
01:08:10,950 --> 01:08:07,920
just

1630
01:08:12,630 --> 01:08:10,960
by accident i saw a spider web a long

1631
01:08:13,990 --> 01:08:12,640
spider web that was

1632
01:08:15,990 --> 01:08:14,000
slowly

1633
01:08:17,910 --> 01:08:16,000
drifting in the breeze

1634
01:08:20,709 --> 01:08:17,920
backlit by the sun

1635
01:08:22,789 --> 01:08:20,719
which was blocked by the roof edge of my

1636
01:08:23,749 --> 01:08:22,799
house just like the uh the edwards

1637
01:08:25,990 --> 01:08:23,759
footage

1638
01:08:28,070 --> 01:08:26,000
and i filmed for

1639
01:08:29,189 --> 01:08:28,080
well it wasn't six minutes

1640
01:08:32,229 --> 01:08:29,199
granted

1641
01:08:35,030 --> 01:08:32,239
uh but i filmed for you know 30 seconds

1642
01:08:37,510 --> 01:08:35,040
and it looked exactly

1643
01:08:39,749 --> 01:08:37,520
like edward's thing except mine was a

1644
01:08:42,550 --> 01:08:39,759
little bit more in focus

1645
01:08:46,390 --> 01:08:44,789
you know i think tom king one of the

1646
01:08:49,829 --> 01:08:46,400
guys that showed me

1647
01:08:50,950 --> 01:08:49,839
the phoenix lights uh incident down you

1648
01:08:54,070 --> 01:08:50,960
know

1649
01:08:57,829 --> 01:08:54,080
in phoenix i think he came up

1650
01:09:01,430 --> 01:08:57,839
pretty soon after the edwards footage uh

1651
01:09:03,430 --> 01:09:01,440
well maybe 97-98 um and he said that

1652
01:09:05,749 --> 01:09:03,440
that's what he thought it was that it

1653
01:09:09,030 --> 01:09:05,759
was uh light prisming through and

1654
01:09:10,470 --> 01:09:09,040
refracting through a a strand of uh

1655
01:09:12,630 --> 01:09:10,480
spider web

1656
01:09:15,590 --> 01:09:12,640
and uh

1657
01:09:18,709 --> 01:09:15,600
you know i i duplicated it and you can

1658
01:09:21,749 --> 01:09:18,719
go to my uh just christopher o'brien

1659
01:09:22,870 --> 01:09:21,759
san luis valley or ufo or whatever on

1660
01:09:24,789 --> 01:09:22,880
youtube

1661
01:09:29,269 --> 01:09:24,799
and you can see

1662
01:09:30,470 --> 01:09:29,279
i called it the sedona ifo or something

1663
01:09:33,110 --> 01:09:30,480
um

1664
01:09:34,950 --> 01:09:33,120
but but i think you know i but

1665
01:09:36,950 --> 01:09:34,960
we need to be intellectually honest

1666
01:09:39,829 --> 01:09:36,960
about this stuff or do we really want to

1667
01:09:41,430 --> 01:09:39,839
know what's going on or or or do you

1668
01:09:44,309 --> 01:09:41,440
know are we going to do

1669
01:09:46,229 --> 01:09:44,319
diligence and and really try to

1670
01:09:48,950 --> 01:09:46,239
get to the bottom of these things and

1671
01:09:51,590 --> 01:09:48,960
and these incidences and

1672
01:09:53,510 --> 01:09:51,600
you know apply the scientific method

1673
01:09:55,590 --> 01:09:53,520
you know i i'm i'm

1674
01:09:57,189 --> 01:09:55,600
just as willing to debunk a case or

1675
01:09:59,270 --> 01:09:57,199
explain it away

1676
01:10:01,270 --> 01:09:59,280
as i am to confirm it as being high

1677
01:10:04,070 --> 01:10:01,280
strange i mean i would love

1678
01:10:06,709 --> 01:10:04,080
that but uh you know we're talking what

1679
01:10:07,750 --> 01:10:06,719
two percent three percent of cases

1680
01:10:09,990 --> 01:10:07,760
so

1681
01:10:11,990 --> 01:10:10,000
you know we have to always

1682
01:10:14,630 --> 01:10:12,000
uh so so i'm just playing with our

1683
01:10:17,830 --> 01:10:14,640
enthusiasm

1684
01:10:19,510 --> 01:10:17,840
yeah yeah this is a of the clip of that

1685
01:10:21,830 --> 01:10:19,520
oh so it looks like

1686
01:10:23,189 --> 01:10:21,840
so there was something off of the bridge

1687
01:10:25,590 --> 01:10:23,199
or something up is that what you're

1688
01:10:27,030 --> 01:10:25,600
saying on this particular

1689
01:10:28,470 --> 01:10:27,040
video can you see

1690
01:10:29,830 --> 01:10:28,480
i i don't know i can't see what you're

1691
01:10:33,669 --> 01:10:29,840
doing oh you can't see it i'm playing

1692
01:10:35,669 --> 01:10:33,679
the edwards uh clip right now

1693
01:10:37,510 --> 01:10:35,679
i found that online so you i'm sorry you

1694
01:10:38,950 --> 01:10:37,520
can't see that but i'll i'll stop the

1695
01:10:40,229 --> 01:10:38,960
screen share it

1696
01:10:41,030 --> 01:10:40,239
hold on

1697
01:10:43,030 --> 01:10:41,040
yeah

1698
01:10:45,750 --> 01:10:43,040
no it's it's gone i took it out oh

1699
01:10:48,149 --> 01:10:45,760
seeing settings no wonder hold on

1700
01:10:50,870 --> 01:10:48,159
oh there we go i've been in my setting

1701
01:10:52,870 --> 01:10:50,880
screen the whole time sorry

1702
01:10:55,270 --> 01:10:52,880
oh oh no i can

1703
01:10:57,430 --> 01:10:55,280
grab my footage too if you want

1704
01:11:00,229 --> 01:10:57,440
yeah well it's kind of hard to do on the

1705
01:11:02,310 --> 01:11:00,239
fly here but anyway um so you think that

1706
01:11:04,870 --> 01:11:02,320
was basically did you say it was a

1707
01:11:05,830 --> 01:11:04,880
spider web

1708
01:11:08,070 --> 01:11:05,840
yeah

1709
01:11:11,350 --> 01:11:08,080
i'm pretty sure it was a long one it was

1710
01:11:13,590 --> 01:11:11,360
about 30 or 40 feet

1711
01:11:14,310 --> 01:11:13,600
it was a strand of spider web

1712
01:11:16,470 --> 01:11:14,320
yeah

1713
01:11:18,550 --> 01:11:16,480
a real long one and there was there was

1714
01:11:19,830 --> 01:11:18,560
just a slight breeze

1715
01:11:21,430 --> 01:11:19,840
uh

1716
01:11:22,950 --> 01:11:21,440
so it was

1717
01:11:29,270 --> 01:11:22,960
it wasn't whipping around and then

1718
01:11:33,750 --> 01:11:30,870
yeah get rid of your more videos well

1719
01:11:35,669 --> 01:11:33,760
you know there's a lot of things

1720
01:11:38,870 --> 01:11:35,679
yeah there's a lot of things that i

1721
01:11:44,229 --> 01:11:38,880
found i found uh interviewed 23

1722
01:11:49,350 --> 01:11:47,430
and what did the witnesses say

1723
01:11:50,870 --> 01:11:49,360
basically everybody said the same thing

1724
01:11:53,189 --> 01:11:50,880
it was like this uh

1725
01:11:55,830 --> 01:11:53,199
like candy cane looking thing in the sky

1726
01:11:57,910 --> 01:11:55,840
that they could they could see

1727
01:11:59,510 --> 01:11:57,920
red and green

1728
01:12:00,870 --> 01:11:59,520
you know prisming

1729
01:12:03,350 --> 01:12:00,880
back and forth

1730
01:12:05,669 --> 01:12:03,360
there was no rhyme or reason to it

1731
01:12:07,990 --> 01:12:05,679
you know it sounded like random uh

1732
01:12:10,630 --> 01:12:08,000
movement with light coming through

1733
01:12:12,630 --> 01:12:10,640
statically through a prism

1734
01:12:14,550 --> 01:12:12,640
which is the the type of effect that i

1735
01:12:15,910 --> 01:12:14,560
was able to duplicate

1736
01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:15,920
um

1737
01:12:20,390 --> 01:12:17,760
that's what it appeared

1738
01:12:26,390 --> 01:12:22,790
to be and these people are scattered

1739
01:12:28,950 --> 01:12:26,400
over a 50 square mile area

1740
01:12:31,669 --> 01:12:28,960
so it was definitely a big object and it

1741
01:12:33,350 --> 01:12:31,679
was way up there but

1742
01:12:35,830 --> 01:12:33,360
why does it duplicate something that

1743
01:12:37,830 --> 01:12:35,840
that that you could uh you could see

1744
01:12:40,709 --> 01:12:37,840
right there in your backyard that's only

1745
01:12:43,669 --> 01:12:40,719
50 feet from you or 40 feet from you you

1746
01:12:46,709 --> 01:12:44,870
that's where this whole thing of

1747
01:12:49,030 --> 01:12:46,719
consciousness and

1748
01:12:52,149 --> 01:12:49,040
and and

1749
01:12:55,830 --> 01:12:54,390
it's the involvement of the observer

1750
01:12:58,630 --> 01:12:55,840
it's not so much what's being

1751
01:13:01,510 --> 01:12:58,640
experienced it's important it's it's

1752
01:13:02,470 --> 01:13:01,520
the person having the experience and

1753
01:13:05,430 --> 01:13:02,480
why

1754
01:13:07,750 --> 01:13:05,440
uh

1755
01:13:08,950 --> 01:13:07,760
generates certain things within that

1756
01:13:11,430 --> 01:13:08,960
individual

1757
01:13:13,990 --> 01:13:11,440
and this you know

1758
01:13:14,790 --> 01:13:14,000
that's subject to way more complicated

1759
01:13:19,110 --> 01:13:14,800
than

1760
01:13:21,270 --> 01:13:19,120
flying around

1761
01:13:22,470 --> 01:13:21,280
you know this is something that is uh

1762
01:13:25,189 --> 01:13:22,480
infinitely

1763
01:13:31,430 --> 01:13:27,750
talented in terms of

1764
01:13:34,149 --> 01:13:31,440
unfolding their agenda effortlessly into

1765
01:13:35,510 --> 01:13:34,159
what we think is our agenda uh john

1766
01:13:37,590 --> 01:13:35,520
alexander

1767
01:13:38,470 --> 01:13:37,600
came up with the idea of

1768
01:13:45,669 --> 01:13:38,480
a

1769
01:13:47,510 --> 01:13:45,679
do before you do it

1770
01:13:48,950 --> 01:13:47,520
and when you get into those kinds of

1771
01:13:50,149 --> 01:13:48,960
realms where

1772
01:13:51,030 --> 01:13:50,159
um

1773
01:13:55,030 --> 01:13:51,040
you know

1774
01:13:57,990 --> 01:13:55,910
uh

1775
01:13:59,030 --> 01:13:58,000
it gets tricky you know

1776
01:14:01,110 --> 01:13:59,040
and

1777
01:14:03,510 --> 01:14:01,120
how does something like that chris work

1778
01:14:05,110 --> 01:14:03,520
when there's like a lot of people seeing

1779
01:14:08,390 --> 01:14:05,120
the same thing

1780
01:14:11,510 --> 01:14:08,400
you know how do how does that work

1781
01:14:14,310 --> 01:14:11,520
that's a very good question uh i've had

1782
01:14:15,590 --> 01:14:14,320
uh i had the the famous stephen grier

1783
01:14:17,590 --> 01:14:15,600
event

1784
01:14:20,630 --> 01:14:17,600
18 people were there

1785
01:14:21,430 --> 01:14:20,640
including the grier and a dear dear

1786
01:14:23,590 --> 01:14:21,440
friend

1787
01:14:26,709 --> 01:14:23,600
who was his managing director the

1788
01:14:29,189 --> 01:14:26,719
original man managing director for c

1789
01:14:30,310 --> 01:14:29,199
said he was sherry adamak a very close

1790
01:14:31,270 --> 01:14:30,320
friend of mine

1791
01:14:33,030 --> 01:14:31,280
um

1792
01:14:35,350 --> 01:14:33,040
and they were in the grotto it's the

1793
01:14:36,229 --> 01:14:35,360
potter falls there's so sacred side up

1794
01:14:39,030 --> 01:14:36,239
in the

1795
01:14:42,229 --> 01:14:39,040
songwriters in san luis valley and they

1796
01:14:45,590 --> 01:14:42,239
they were surrounded by a golden light

1797
01:14:47,590 --> 01:14:45,600
uh and and stephen and

1798
01:14:49,510 --> 01:14:47,600
sherry had stayed back in the grotto

1799
01:14:51,189 --> 01:14:49,520
everybody else was leaving

1800
01:14:52,790 --> 01:14:51,199
and so

1801
01:14:55,750 --> 01:14:52,800
the people that were closest to them

1802
01:14:57,910 --> 01:14:55,760
yeah they reported they saw a like a

1803
01:15:01,030 --> 01:14:57,920
light come down on them

1804
01:15:03,189 --> 01:15:01,040
nobody saw the alien et's that

1805
01:15:05,030 --> 01:15:03,199
all different types that were talking to

1806
01:15:06,070 --> 01:15:05,040
steve and sherry didn't

1807
01:15:07,910 --> 01:15:06,080
see that

1808
01:15:10,149 --> 01:15:07,920
she heard steven talk she could see he

1809
01:15:11,830 --> 01:15:10,159
was talking to something but she didn't

1810
01:15:14,630 --> 01:15:11,840
see what you know

1811
01:15:17,270 --> 01:15:14,640
there was nothing there according to her

1812
01:15:19,030 --> 01:15:17,280
um and then you know the rest of the

1813
01:15:23,669 --> 01:15:19,040
what

1814
01:15:25,910 --> 01:15:23,679
nine ten people that i interviewed um

1815
01:15:27,750 --> 01:15:25,920
you know it went from the people close

1816
01:15:29,350 --> 01:15:27,760
saying oh yeah people were saying

1817
01:15:30,950 --> 01:15:29,360
something was going on but i was tired i

1818
01:15:32,229 --> 01:15:30,960
wanted to get to the car

1819
01:15:34,070 --> 01:15:32,239
uh to

1820
01:15:38,550 --> 01:15:34,080
oh i don't believe that you know they

1821
01:15:39,510 --> 01:15:38,560
came down all excited and you know

1822
01:15:41,669 --> 01:15:39,520
there were

1823
01:15:44,310 --> 01:15:41,679
you know some real dubious ones at the

1824
01:15:45,990 --> 01:15:44,320
uh some of the first to leave the grotto

1825
01:15:46,950 --> 01:15:46,000
let's put it that way

1826
01:15:48,790 --> 01:15:46,960
so

1827
01:15:51,510 --> 01:15:48,800
you have an event that was seen by

1828
01:15:52,390 --> 01:15:51,520
roughly eight or nine people

1829
01:15:54,310 --> 01:15:52,400
and

1830
01:15:57,350 --> 01:15:54,320
maybe 10

1831
01:16:00,470 --> 01:15:58,950
half of them

1832
01:16:02,070 --> 01:16:00,480
support

1833
01:16:05,590 --> 01:16:02,080
to a certain degree

1834
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:05,600
the primary witnesses account

1835
01:16:12,709 --> 01:16:08,400
but the other half were like ah you know

1836
01:16:15,750 --> 01:16:13,510
so

1837
01:16:19,030 --> 01:16:15,760
witness testimony as we know martin is

1838
01:16:21,910 --> 01:16:19,040
is probably the least reliable

1839
01:16:24,390 --> 01:16:21,920
you know give us some dna or physical

1840
01:16:25,830 --> 01:16:24,400
evidence any time uh over

1841
01:16:28,790 --> 01:16:25,840
people's uh

1842
01:16:31,350 --> 01:16:28,800
recollections however i was able to

1843
01:16:33,270 --> 01:16:31,360
interview everybody that weekend i think

1844
01:16:35,430 --> 01:16:33,280
was the day before

1845
01:16:37,510 --> 01:16:35,440
that it happened so i got everybody

1846
01:16:39,910 --> 01:16:37,520
fresh i entered

1847
01:16:41,110 --> 01:16:39,920
i interviewed 12 of the 18

1848
01:16:43,110 --> 01:16:41,120
um

1849
01:16:45,750 --> 01:16:43,120
everybody separately

1850
01:16:47,590 --> 01:16:45,760
and um

1851
01:16:49,189 --> 01:16:47,600
something happened there

1852
01:16:51,669 --> 01:16:49,199
but

1853
01:16:53,350 --> 01:16:51,679
nobody could really agree

1854
01:16:56,390 --> 01:16:53,360
or come up with a

1855
01:16:58,790 --> 01:16:56,400
a consensus that that validates what

1856
01:17:01,669 --> 01:16:58,800
greer claims happen which was the

1857
01:17:03,990 --> 01:17:01,679
communication by the et's that

1858
01:17:08,310 --> 01:17:04,000
they were under attack in their alien

1859
01:17:11,110 --> 01:17:08,320
spaceport quote-unquote in mount blanca

1860
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:13,750
you know

1861
01:17:18,390 --> 01:17:15,830
so

1862
01:17:19,910 --> 01:17:18,400
example of a you know

1863
01:17:22,229 --> 01:17:19,920
like

1864
01:17:23,750 --> 01:17:22,239
it was an amazing everybody came in the

1865
01:17:25,510 --> 01:17:23,760
next day and they're like you won't

1866
01:17:29,270 --> 01:17:25,520
believe what happened you know and i'm

1867
01:17:32,149 --> 01:17:29,280
like okay let's take this one at a time

1868
01:17:34,070 --> 01:17:32,159
line up take a number

1869
01:17:37,189 --> 01:17:34,080
someone sent me a clip the other day of

1870
01:17:40,070 --> 01:17:37,199
uh greer uh talking about

1871
01:17:44,310 --> 01:17:40,080
going to planets he saw he went past the

1872
01:17:46,870 --> 01:17:44,320
planets and wow why not um

1873
01:17:49,110 --> 01:17:46,880
but anyway uh so just uh again watch

1874
01:17:51,270 --> 01:17:49,120
where you get your information there how

1875
01:17:53,189 --> 01:17:51,280
much is he gonna charge for that

1876
01:17:55,430 --> 01:17:53,199
yeah that's that's that's more money

1877
01:17:57,110 --> 01:17:55,440
than being in the invisible ufo and

1878
01:18:00,310 --> 01:17:57,120
getting a picture of that wow he and

1879
01:18:02,550 --> 01:18:00,320
elon musk must be uh prison buddies

1880
01:18:03,669 --> 01:18:02,560
that's right so here's a question for

1881
01:18:06,390 --> 01:18:03,679
you here

1882
01:18:07,990 --> 01:18:06,400
is the san luis valley prone to ufos due

1883
01:18:08,709 --> 01:18:08,000
to underground water flow i mean that's

1884
01:18:18,229 --> 01:18:08,719
a

1885
01:18:19,990 --> 01:18:18,239
is there like well it's not

1886
01:18:22,229 --> 01:18:20,000
one of the largest high out to two or

1887
01:18:24,550 --> 01:18:22,239
five hundreds in the world

1888
01:18:27,830 --> 01:18:24,560
it's a it's definitely the largest in in

1889
01:18:31,430 --> 01:18:27,840
north america or at least in the

1890
01:18:33,270 --> 01:18:31,440
48 contiguous states um

1891
01:18:35,350 --> 01:18:33,280
but uh

1892
01:18:37,750 --> 01:18:35,360
water flow now that's interesting

1893
01:18:40,790 --> 01:18:37,760
because the water really doesn't flow

1894
01:18:41,990 --> 01:18:40,800
it it it it kind of slowly moves through

1895
01:18:44,229 --> 01:18:42,000
i'm sure

1896
01:18:45,750 --> 01:18:44,239
um the aquifer goes down tens of

1897
01:18:48,310 --> 01:18:45,760
thousands of feet

1898
01:18:50,229 --> 01:18:48,320
uh it's like america's uh water tank you

1899
01:18:52,149 --> 01:18:50,239
go into a little town they have the

1900
01:18:54,470 --> 01:18:52,159
water tank with the name of the town on

1901
01:18:57,510 --> 01:18:54,480
it yeah but that's what the san luis

1902
01:18:59,350 --> 01:18:57,520
valley is for north america in fact the

1903
01:19:00,870 --> 01:18:59,360
amount of water that's there if it's

1904
01:19:02,709 --> 01:19:00,880
properly treated

1905
01:19:03,750 --> 01:19:02,719
could supply

1906
01:19:08,630 --> 01:19:03,760
you know

1907
01:19:10,950 --> 01:19:08,640
phoenix albuquerque mexico city l.a

1908
01:19:12,550 --> 01:19:10,960
you know with the infrastructure

1909
01:19:14,950 --> 01:19:12,560
all the places that desperately need

1910
01:19:17,270 --> 01:19:14,960
water yeah exactly the entire parts the

1911
01:19:19,270 --> 01:19:17,280
southwest now that's

1912
01:19:21,750 --> 01:19:19,280
that's going on the assumption that you

1913
01:19:24,550 --> 01:19:21,760
can empty all that water out and then

1914
01:19:25,590 --> 01:19:24,560
refill it which was the grand canal

1915
01:19:27,110 --> 01:19:25,600
scheme

1916
01:19:28,709 --> 01:19:27,120
uh that was

1917
01:19:30,950 --> 01:19:28,719
maurice strong

1918
01:19:33,510 --> 01:19:30,960
wanted to convert the tip of hudson bay

1919
01:19:35,830 --> 01:19:33,520
into a fresh water uh you know salt

1920
01:19:38,149 --> 01:19:35,840
water to a fresh water

1921
01:19:41,110 --> 01:19:38,159
and then with the help of five nuclear

1922
01:19:44,070 --> 01:19:41,120
reactors divert five rivers down from

1923
01:19:47,189 --> 01:19:44,080
canada to go up to the san luis valley

1924
01:19:50,470 --> 01:19:47,199
and refill the aquifer and keep shooting

1925
01:19:52,229 --> 01:19:50,480
it downstream out of the valley but then

1926
01:19:54,709 --> 01:19:52,239
recharging it from water that's

1927
01:19:57,030 --> 01:19:54,719
naturally desalinated from canada

1928
01:19:59,669 --> 01:19:57,040
believe it or not i

1929
01:20:01,910 --> 01:19:59,679
we had maps and engineering reports and

1930
01:20:03,510 --> 01:20:01,920
stuff feasibility studies

1931
01:20:05,510 --> 01:20:03,520
that we uncovered

1932
01:20:07,270 --> 01:20:05,520
never

1933
01:20:09,030 --> 01:20:07,280
nobody ever found out about the grand

1934
01:20:11,430 --> 01:20:09,040
canal scheme it would have dwarfed the

1935
01:20:13,590 --> 01:20:11,440
great wall of china in terms of

1936
01:20:15,030 --> 01:20:13,600
man's accomplishments on the face of the

1937
01:20:18,390 --> 01:20:15,040
earth you know

1938
01:20:20,149 --> 01:20:18,400
wow well speaking of uh technology what

1939
01:20:23,510 --> 01:20:20,159
about your have you gone anywhere with

1940
01:20:25,270 --> 01:20:23,520
your the unit there that you you created

1941
01:20:29,189 --> 01:20:25,280
the ufo

1942
01:20:30,709 --> 01:20:29,199
no i didn't create any units uh ron ulch

1943
01:20:33,430 --> 01:20:30,719
my engineer

1944
01:20:34,470 --> 01:20:33,440
uh and partner he uh

1945
01:20:35,590 --> 01:20:34,480
he's

1946
01:20:40,229 --> 01:20:35,600
you know

1947
01:20:44,470 --> 01:20:42,709
uh an inventor

1948
01:20:46,070 --> 01:20:44,480
he worked for disney he's had you know

1949
01:20:47,189 --> 01:20:46,080
some really cool jobs he's very very

1950
01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:47,199
bright

1951
01:20:55,910 --> 01:20:52,320
software system that allows

1952
01:20:58,470 --> 01:20:55,920
a user with multi up to six cameras

1953
01:21:00,629 --> 01:20:58,480
or six sensors uh

1954
01:21:01,990 --> 01:21:00,639
opticals you know one

1955
01:21:04,950 --> 01:21:02,000
um

1956
01:21:06,229 --> 01:21:04,960
that it coordinates the actions of all

1957
01:21:07,430 --> 01:21:06,239
these different

1958
01:21:11,110 --> 01:21:07,440
sensors

1959
01:21:14,149 --> 01:21:11,120
so you could have three optical cameras

1960
01:21:15,990 --> 01:21:14,159
um that are operating uh talking to each

1961
01:21:18,470 --> 01:21:16,000
other over the internet

1962
01:21:20,870 --> 01:21:18,480
and the software

1963
01:21:22,550 --> 01:21:20,880
allows them to all focus their you know

1964
01:21:23,750 --> 01:21:22,560
if something happens if an event

1965
01:21:26,390 --> 01:21:23,760
triggers

1966
01:21:28,870 --> 01:21:26,400
um the software then

1967
01:21:31,350 --> 01:21:28,880
goes into record mode and

1968
01:21:34,149 --> 01:21:31,360
all the cameras will will

1969
01:21:35,910 --> 01:21:34,159
take the coordinate data that's from gps

1970
01:21:39,750 --> 01:21:35,920
from google earth

1971
01:21:42,950 --> 01:21:39,760
uh google maps and it'll

1972
01:21:45,270 --> 01:21:42,960
point the cameras at that particular

1973
01:21:47,990 --> 01:21:45,280
event they will then be able to you know

1974
01:21:49,270 --> 01:21:48,000
the closest camera will zoom in

1975
01:21:51,910 --> 01:21:49,280
uh

1976
01:21:53,030 --> 01:21:51,920
you know if you have a a multi-sensor

1977
01:21:55,669 --> 01:21:53,040
data

1978
01:22:00,189 --> 01:21:55,679
acquisition unit or msda u

1979
01:22:03,430 --> 01:22:00,199
then you can also turn on magnetometers

1980
01:22:05,830 --> 01:22:03,440
accelerometers uh gravitometers to look

1981
01:22:09,030 --> 01:22:05,840
for changes in the earth's uh

1982
01:22:10,870 --> 01:22:09,040
gravity to look for changes in the in

1983
01:22:13,110 --> 01:22:10,880
the magnetic field

1984
01:22:16,310 --> 01:22:13,120
there's a

1985
01:22:18,229 --> 01:22:16,320
full band a frequency spectrum analyzer

1986
01:22:20,390 --> 01:22:18,239
on there too that's going to be sweeping

1987
01:22:22,709 --> 01:22:20,400
through the frequencies to see what

1988
01:22:24,790 --> 01:22:22,719
what they can pick up

1989
01:22:27,189 --> 01:22:24,800
i mean ultimately we want you know

1990
01:22:29,910 --> 01:22:27,199
active radar and

1991
01:22:33,590 --> 01:22:29,920
and you know really good

1992
01:22:36,390 --> 01:22:33,600
super sophisticated pzm microphones

1993
01:22:38,790 --> 01:22:36,400
to pick up extremely low frequencies uh

1994
01:22:39,590 --> 01:22:38,800
acoustic frequencies

1995
01:22:42,070 --> 01:22:39,600
so

1996
01:22:43,990 --> 01:22:42,080
yeah you know although we've got we've

1997
01:22:46,310 --> 01:22:44,000
got customized systems that are

1998
01:22:49,510 --> 01:22:46,320
available for like you know the

1999
01:22:51,669 --> 01:22:49,520
the cost of off the shelf basically and

2000
01:22:54,310 --> 01:22:51,679
then we have the software that allows

2001
01:22:56,310 --> 01:22:54,320
you to run all this stuff and and have

2002
01:22:58,950 --> 01:22:56,320
it all work together

2003
01:23:01,590 --> 01:22:58,960
turnkey so you don't have to do anything

2004
01:23:04,629 --> 01:23:01,600
except review the files review the

2005
01:23:06,550 --> 01:23:04,639
folders you know

2006
01:23:08,390 --> 01:23:06,560
and you can go in and play with it too i

2007
01:23:10,390 --> 01:23:08,400
mean you can make the cameras do

2008
01:23:11,590 --> 01:23:10,400
whatever you want

2009
01:23:13,830 --> 01:23:11,600
uh

2010
01:23:15,990 --> 01:23:13,840
you know it's we have 12 i think 12

2011
01:23:17,669 --> 01:23:16,000
systems now are out there

2012
01:23:21,030 --> 01:23:17,679
we're in i

2013
01:23:22,629 --> 01:23:21,040
think four countries now um

2014
01:23:24,310 --> 01:23:22,639
18

2015
01:23:26,550 --> 01:23:24,320
different uh

2016
01:23:27,590 --> 01:23:26,560
versions of the software or are out

2017
01:23:30,470 --> 01:23:27,600
there

2018
01:23:33,430 --> 01:23:30,480
including the software that's helping

2019
01:23:35,750 --> 01:23:33,440
eric bard up at the skinwalker ranch uh

2020
01:23:37,030 --> 01:23:35,760
coordinator it is various sensors and

2021
01:23:39,669 --> 01:23:37,040
cameras

2022
01:23:41,590 --> 01:23:39,679
he's using the um uh

2023
01:23:43,669 --> 01:23:41,600
ron ulc

2024
01:23:48,629 --> 01:23:43,679
software

2025
01:23:50,390 --> 01:23:48,639
bounding boxes for things flying by and

2026
01:23:52,870 --> 01:23:50,400
you know it's

2027
01:23:56,390 --> 01:23:52,880
it totally maps everything out and

2028
01:23:59,910 --> 01:23:56,400
in in google maps so you have a complete

2029
01:24:03,110 --> 01:23:59,920
log of everything altitude azimuth

2030
01:24:04,629 --> 01:24:03,120
direction speed uh

2031
01:24:06,709 --> 01:24:04,639
you know just

2032
01:24:07,830 --> 01:24:06,719
you name it

2033
01:24:10,790 --> 01:24:07,840
wow

2034
01:24:14,070 --> 01:24:10,800
um so i i just found a picture i took of

2035
01:24:15,510 --> 01:24:14,080
you when we were in phoenix uh holding

2036
01:24:18,390 --> 01:24:15,520
one of these units

2037
01:24:20,470 --> 01:24:18,400
and i'm all right just uploading it

2038
01:24:23,510 --> 01:24:20,480
at the congress

2039
01:24:25,350 --> 01:24:23,520
so yeah we're have has anyone picked up

2040
01:24:28,709 --> 01:24:25,360
anything with these yet

2041
01:24:29,669 --> 01:24:28,719
well we have in the san luis valley uh

2042
01:24:31,270 --> 01:24:29,679
there's

2043
01:24:33,110 --> 01:24:31,280
you know we've had some some pretty

2044
01:24:35,030 --> 01:24:33,120
interesting things uh fly over we

2045
01:24:36,950 --> 01:24:35,040
haven't really had a chance to

2046
01:24:39,189 --> 01:24:36,960
even think about getting anything

2047
01:24:41,110 --> 01:24:39,199
analyzed we're too busy

2048
01:24:42,070 --> 01:24:41,120
too busy but just

2049
01:24:43,990 --> 01:24:42,080
man

2050
01:24:46,870 --> 01:24:44,000
getting that second unit up in the

2051
01:24:47,990 --> 01:24:46,880
valley has really become a real

2052
01:24:49,030 --> 01:24:48,000
headache

2053
01:24:51,430 --> 01:24:49,040
uh

2054
01:24:53,830 --> 01:24:51,440
as soon as people

2055
01:24:56,070 --> 01:24:53,840
think it's gonna be something big and

2056
01:24:57,990 --> 01:24:56,080
there's money then you know the shark

2057
01:24:59,270 --> 01:24:58,000
gets like blood in the water to sharks

2058
01:25:02,470 --> 01:24:59,280
that

2059
01:25:04,950 --> 01:25:02,480
yeah everybody gets all greedy and

2060
01:25:07,270 --> 01:25:04,960
you know i want to be up on a cell tower

2061
01:25:08,550 --> 01:25:07,280
martin i really do and i'm not going to

2062
01:25:11,510 --> 01:25:08,560
pay

2063
01:25:13,189 --> 01:25:11,520
36 000 a year to have a camera hanging

2064
01:25:15,030 --> 01:25:13,199
on a cell tower

2065
01:25:17,189 --> 01:25:15,040
so you know it's

2066
01:25:18,550 --> 01:25:17,199
that's the kind of money this is talking

2067
01:25:20,550 --> 01:25:18,560
yeah there's

2068
01:25:23,189 --> 01:25:20,560
there's been some interesting roadblocks

2069
01:25:26,310 --> 01:25:23,199
that have have happened

2070
01:25:28,870 --> 01:25:26,320
uh the lady that was uh you know manning

2071
01:25:31,189 --> 01:25:28,880
the bed and breakfast uh

2072
01:25:33,990 --> 01:25:31,199
upon whose roof we were

2073
01:25:35,390 --> 01:25:34,000
you know we had our camera mounted

2074
01:25:39,510 --> 01:25:35,400
um

2075
01:25:43,270 --> 01:25:39,520
inexplicably she she picked up and

2076
01:25:47,270 --> 01:25:43,280
and left and and just moved out to

2077
01:25:48,070 --> 01:25:47,280
tortuga or antigua or one of those

2078
01:25:50,629 --> 01:25:48,080
you know

2079
01:25:52,709 --> 01:25:50,639
i think it was tortuga

2080
01:25:55,990 --> 01:25:52,719
it wasn't antigua i forget it was one of

2081
01:25:58,790 --> 01:25:56,000
those two all of a sudden she moves i

2082
01:26:00,790 --> 01:25:58,800
mean she was like this

2083
01:26:02,070 --> 01:26:00,800
wow

2084
01:26:03,590 --> 01:26:02,080
i

2085
01:26:05,590 --> 01:26:03,600
yeah

2086
01:26:06,790 --> 01:26:05,600
somebody must have died in the family or

2087
01:26:09,189 --> 01:26:06,800
something

2088
01:26:11,669 --> 01:26:09,199
because she didn't tell you know the

2089
01:26:13,910 --> 01:26:11,679
judy messeline the you know the owner of

2090
01:26:16,310 --> 01:26:13,920
the ufo watchtower was her landlord and

2091
01:26:18,550 --> 01:26:16,320
she was running the bnb for her she

2092
01:26:20,950 --> 01:26:18,560
didn't even tell her she was leaving and

2093
01:26:23,590 --> 01:26:20,960
of course the internet connection

2094
01:26:25,030 --> 01:26:23,600
and the power you know it just

2095
01:26:27,110 --> 01:26:25,040
ended up

2096
01:26:29,430 --> 01:26:27,120
going off and it's like uh

2097
01:26:32,470 --> 01:26:29,440
well the camera doesn't work anymore so

2098
01:26:34,550 --> 01:26:32,480
so what do we do you know and i gotta

2099
01:26:36,550 --> 01:26:34,560
say when when i went out there earlier

2100
01:26:41,350 --> 01:26:36,560
this year in september

2101
01:26:42,470 --> 01:26:41,360
uh rex bear from the uh elite project uh

2102
01:26:44,629 --> 01:26:42,480
came through

2103
01:26:45,590 --> 01:26:44,639
you know as a knight in shining armor he

2104
01:26:49,830 --> 01:26:45,600
really

2105
01:26:51,510 --> 01:26:49,840
a big favor he

2106
01:26:54,550 --> 01:26:51,520
he's been helping him

2107
01:26:56,470 --> 01:26:54,560
just invaluable as someone on the ground

2108
01:26:58,870 --> 01:26:56,480
there that

2109
01:27:00,709 --> 01:26:58,880
is willing to you know to drive the

2110
01:27:02,709 --> 01:27:00,719
miles and and

2111
01:27:05,350 --> 01:27:02,719
and help get this thing going and we

2112
01:27:08,629 --> 01:27:05,360
finally do have the camera back up

2113
01:27:10,790 --> 01:27:08,639
however there's some weird

2114
01:27:13,030 --> 01:27:10,800
you know the driver that we were using

2115
01:27:15,910 --> 01:27:13,040
and that's the only one that we can find

2116
01:27:18,550 --> 01:27:15,920
that works has

2117
01:27:20,070 --> 01:27:18,560
all of a sudden has bugs in it so that

2118
01:27:21,669 --> 01:27:20,080
we cannot

2119
01:27:23,110 --> 01:27:21,679
uh

2120
01:27:25,430 --> 01:27:23,120
i don't want to get into too many

2121
01:27:27,430 --> 01:27:25,440
details but uh

2122
01:27:31,030 --> 01:27:27,440
it's just it's just

2123
01:27:33,510 --> 01:27:31,040
some you know niggling things that uh

2124
01:27:36,709 --> 01:27:33,520
a guy with a master's in computer

2125
01:27:39,110 --> 01:27:36,719
science is scratching this head going

2126
01:27:40,390 --> 01:27:39,120
this is

2127
01:27:42,709 --> 01:27:40,400
really right

2128
01:27:45,189 --> 01:27:43,590
yeah

2129
01:27:48,229 --> 01:27:45,199
you know i mean

2130
01:27:49,990 --> 01:27:48,239
the mind wanders sometimes uh it's just

2131
01:27:50,790 --> 01:27:50,000
been so difficult to get this whole

2132
01:27:52,149 --> 01:27:50,800
thing

2133
01:27:55,110 --> 01:27:52,159
off the ground although we're having

2134
01:27:57,350 --> 01:27:55,120
great success with people elsewhere um

2135
01:27:59,350 --> 01:27:57,360
we haven't really done a

2136
01:28:01,350 --> 01:27:59,360
sweep around yet people are still

2137
01:28:03,590 --> 01:28:01,360
getting their sea legs with this stuff i

2138
01:28:06,149 --> 01:28:03,600
mean it's it's

2139
01:28:08,470 --> 01:28:06,159
it's very sophisticated

2140
01:28:09,990 --> 01:28:08,480
you know you need to uh there is a bit

2141
01:28:11,270 --> 01:28:10,000
of a learning curve like with any

2142
01:28:13,110 --> 01:28:11,280
technology

2143
01:28:15,669 --> 01:28:13,120
uh but it's

2144
01:28:16,709 --> 01:28:15,679
about as turnkey as you can make

2145
01:28:18,709 --> 01:28:16,719
uh

2146
01:28:20,709 --> 01:28:18,719
a package you know a sensor package like

2147
01:28:23,910 --> 01:28:20,719
this it's about as turnkey as you can

2148
01:28:25,990 --> 01:28:23,920
make it so we're

2149
01:28:28,790 --> 01:28:26,000
there's

2150
01:28:30,310 --> 01:28:28,800
no dummies uh are

2151
01:28:31,830 --> 01:28:30,320
getting this gear the people that are

2152
01:28:34,070 --> 01:28:31,840
getting this gear

2153
01:28:35,830 --> 01:28:34,080
on the ball and uh

2154
01:28:37,510 --> 01:28:35,840
well it looks like something that would

2155
01:28:40,870 --> 01:28:37,520
be expensive

2156
01:28:44,310 --> 01:28:40,880
i mean that's more look but it's not no

2157
01:28:46,310 --> 01:28:44,320
no you can start for as little as 400

2158
01:28:51,910 --> 01:28:46,320
for a single camera

2159
01:28:57,830 --> 01:28:55,110
about 5 000 to

2160
01:29:00,870 --> 01:28:57,840
5200 depending on whether you get

2161
01:29:02,550 --> 01:29:00,880
the extra you know powerful antennas and

2162
01:29:04,229 --> 01:29:02,560
you know there's there's add-on things

2163
01:29:06,550 --> 01:29:04,239
that that do

2164
01:29:08,709 --> 01:29:06,560
put the cost up a little but for five

2165
01:29:11,189 --> 01:29:08,719
grand you're going to get the

2166
01:29:14,310 --> 01:29:11,199
you know a turnkey

2167
01:29:16,229 --> 01:29:14,320
system that if you got a laptop computer

2168
01:29:17,910 --> 01:29:16,239
you're going to be able to have a

2169
01:29:20,709 --> 01:29:17,920
triangulated

2170
01:29:22,709 --> 01:29:20,719
optics um and

2171
01:29:24,629 --> 01:29:22,719
the help of

2172
01:29:27,510 --> 01:29:24,639
you know the various sensors

2173
01:29:30,310 --> 01:29:27,520
magnetometer gravitometer accelerometers

2174
01:29:32,470 --> 01:29:30,320
radio frequency spectrum analyzers

2175
01:29:35,430 --> 01:29:32,480
uh you can even get a camera that has a

2176
01:29:37,669 --> 01:29:35,440
blaze grading which allows you to take

2177
01:29:38,790 --> 01:29:37,679
the light

2178
01:29:41,750 --> 01:29:38,800
that you

2179
01:29:43,430 --> 01:29:41,760
see at night from an object and you can

2180
01:29:46,070 --> 01:29:43,440
actually split

2181
01:29:49,590 --> 01:29:46,080
the light beam into its spectra so you

2182
01:29:51,270 --> 01:29:49,600
can analyze exactly uh what's producing

2183
01:29:53,189 --> 01:29:51,280
the light that you're seeing

2184
01:29:56,149 --> 01:29:53,199
because you're breaking it up into its

2185
01:29:57,830 --> 01:29:56,159
constituent elements and so

2186
01:29:59,750 --> 01:29:57,840
um

2187
01:30:01,590 --> 01:29:59,760
we're you know we have a lot of very

2188
01:30:03,189 --> 01:30:01,600
high-powered people that have been been

2189
01:30:06,470 --> 01:30:03,199
helping us uh

2190
01:30:08,629 --> 01:30:06,480
and giving us suggestions for design and

2191
01:30:10,790 --> 01:30:08,639
implementation and and

2192
01:30:13,270 --> 01:30:10,800
ron ulch is you know

2193
01:30:14,310 --> 01:30:13,280
he's fabricating everything

2194
01:30:16,229 --> 01:30:14,320
um

2195
01:30:18,070 --> 01:30:16,239
by hand

2196
01:30:19,510 --> 01:30:18,080
this is all based on an open course

2197
01:30:20,870 --> 01:30:19,520
raspberry pi

2198
01:30:22,870 --> 01:30:20,880
architecture

2199
01:30:26,470 --> 01:30:22,880
uh anybody can take it and just have

2200
01:30:28,550 --> 01:30:26,480
their way with it i mean there's no

2201
01:30:30,709 --> 01:30:28,560
you know there's nothing proprietary the

2202
01:30:33,189 --> 01:30:30,719
software you know he

2203
01:30:35,830 --> 01:30:33,199
i think he did 100 000 lines of code and

2204
01:30:38,390 --> 01:30:35,840
took seven years or something uh

2205
01:30:40,390 --> 01:30:38,400
uh the software yeah he should uh he he

2206
01:30:43,350 --> 01:30:40,400
charges ninety dollars i think for the

2207
01:30:44,870 --> 01:30:43,360
software which is nothing

2208
01:30:47,270 --> 01:30:44,880
yeah for what you're getting you're

2209
01:30:49,270 --> 01:30:47,280
getting like rudimentary targeting

2210
01:30:51,030 --> 01:30:49,280
software that you'd see with it with you

2211
01:30:52,070 --> 01:30:51,040
know the military

2212
01:30:54,550 --> 01:30:52,080
you know

2213
01:30:55,910 --> 01:30:54,560
yeah and what's the sensor

2214
01:30:57,590 --> 01:30:55,920
so what about

2215
01:30:59,830 --> 01:30:57,600
the thing that i i thought of when i

2216
01:31:02,310 --> 01:30:59,840
looked at this thing was first of all

2217
01:31:04,390 --> 01:31:02,320
that you'd have to put it away from

2218
01:31:06,629 --> 01:31:04,400
where someone would mess with it and

2219
01:31:09,350 --> 01:31:06,639
secondly how does it power how do you

2220
01:31:12,070 --> 01:31:09,360
keep the power going on that thing

2221
01:31:13,830 --> 01:31:12,080
there's actually um two ways you can do

2222
01:31:16,950 --> 01:31:13,840
it as a as a

2223
01:31:19,510 --> 01:31:16,960
charge recharge uh

2224
01:31:20,550 --> 01:31:19,520
you know with solar panels you can do

2225
01:31:22,470 --> 01:31:20,560
that

2226
01:31:24,950 --> 01:31:22,480
um but

2227
01:31:26,470 --> 01:31:24,960
oh you know you need internet okay it's

2228
01:31:30,709 --> 01:31:26,480
it's internet

2229
01:31:34,229 --> 01:31:30,719
and uh you know an ac power

2230
01:31:37,590 --> 01:31:36,310
you know there are ways to to make it

2231
01:31:40,229 --> 01:31:37,600
portable

2232
01:31:41,110 --> 01:31:40,239
you can integrate cell phones into it

2233
01:31:46,310 --> 01:31:41,120
and

2234
01:31:49,430 --> 01:31:46,320
i think for the average person unless

2235
01:31:52,149 --> 01:31:49,440
you're on a rapid response team for the

2236
01:31:53,189 --> 01:31:52,159
for the ufo tracking uh force or

2237
01:31:55,030 --> 01:31:53,199
something

2238
01:31:57,430 --> 01:31:55,040
you know you're not gonna

2239
01:31:59,669 --> 01:31:57,440
who's gonna have a satellite phone uh

2240
01:32:01,750 --> 01:31:59,679
that's going to be able to hook up to

2241
01:32:03,750 --> 01:32:01,760
the internet this thing is you know it's

2242
01:32:04,709 --> 01:32:03,760
basically reliant like i said on the

2243
01:32:07,350 --> 01:32:04,719
internet

2244
01:32:10,390 --> 01:32:07,360
and the availability of power now the

2245
01:32:12,550 --> 01:32:10,400
camera itself and the unit

2246
01:32:14,950 --> 01:32:12,560
can be supplied power over a simple

2247
01:32:16,870 --> 01:32:14,960
ethernet connection which is also going

2248
01:32:19,590 --> 01:32:16,880
to be taking the internet

2249
01:32:22,149 --> 01:32:19,600
signal and transceiving it

2250
01:32:23,350 --> 01:32:22,159
so you can do a pop

2251
01:32:24,390 --> 01:32:23,360
power

2252
01:32:26,470 --> 01:32:24,400
uh

2253
01:32:28,790 --> 01:32:26,480
arrangement so that the

2254
01:32:31,669 --> 01:32:28,800
you know don't forget these cameras have

2255
01:32:34,310 --> 01:32:31,679
air conditioners and heaters in them

2256
01:32:36,950 --> 01:32:34,320
they can survive from 120 degrees

2257
01:32:39,669 --> 01:32:36,960
fahrenheit down to 30

2258
01:32:40,470 --> 01:32:39,679
well we've had one 35 below

2259
01:32:43,910 --> 01:32:40,480
so

2260
01:32:45,110 --> 01:32:43,920
um these are very robust units they have

2261
01:32:47,189 --> 01:32:45,120
you know they have sealed the

2262
01:32:48,149 --> 01:32:47,199
environmental enclosures

2263
01:32:49,910 --> 01:32:48,159
um

2264
01:32:52,390 --> 01:32:49,920
you know all the

2265
01:32:54,550 --> 01:32:52,400
everything is is tight

2266
01:32:56,950 --> 01:32:54,560
it's got to be it's pressure you know

2267
01:32:59,030 --> 01:32:56,960
when you when you open the msda you you

2268
01:33:01,110 --> 01:32:59,040
can hear the negative pressure come out

2269
01:33:03,110 --> 01:33:01,120
it's a it's an airtight

2270
01:33:04,390 --> 01:33:03,120
environment uh

2271
01:33:05,990 --> 01:33:04,400
and

2272
01:33:07,590 --> 01:33:06,000
again uh

2273
01:33:10,470 --> 01:33:07,600
if you would

2274
01:33:12,629 --> 01:33:10,480
mark this up the way it would be retail

2275
01:33:15,510 --> 01:33:12,639
it's a ten thousand dollar system

2276
01:33:18,390 --> 01:33:15,520
basically and you can get it for five

2277
01:33:20,709 --> 01:33:18,400
which is our cost i mean he makes ninety

2278
01:33:22,709 --> 01:33:20,719
dollars on on the software

2279
01:33:25,189 --> 01:33:22,719
and everything else is just drop shipped

2280
01:33:27,430 --> 01:33:25,199
from the manufacturer except for the

2281
01:33:29,350 --> 01:33:27,440
special brackets and things that that he

2282
01:33:31,270 --> 01:33:29,360
needs to make but uh

2283
01:33:33,910 --> 01:33:31,280
you know and everything's customized to

2284
01:33:36,229 --> 01:33:33,920
the to the user's location

2285
01:33:39,350 --> 01:33:36,239
you know if you got a radio tower we can

2286
01:33:41,510 --> 01:33:39,360
help you know we've got the hardware to

2287
01:33:43,590 --> 01:33:41,520
accommodate that particular installation

2288
01:33:45,270 --> 01:33:43,600
if you have just side of a house

2289
01:33:47,350 --> 01:33:45,280
if you have a pole

2290
01:33:50,950 --> 01:33:47,360
if you want it portable we've got great

2291
01:33:53,750 --> 01:33:50,960
tripods real sturdy um you're not going

2292
01:33:54,950 --> 01:33:53,760
to get that good of gravity and readings

2293
01:33:57,910 --> 01:33:54,960
obviously

2294
01:33:59,350 --> 01:33:57,920
uh in terms of a gravitometer you need a

2295
01:34:02,229 --> 01:33:59,360
real stable

2296
01:34:06,870 --> 01:34:02,239
platform for that to even hope to have

2297
01:34:08,310 --> 01:34:06,880
anything uh scientifically viable um

2298
01:34:11,189 --> 01:34:08,320
but um

2299
01:34:15,270 --> 01:34:11,199
you know uh this is

2300
01:34:17,110 --> 01:34:15,280
this is the the next step forward in in

2301
01:34:20,070 --> 01:34:17,120
ufology uh

2302
01:34:21,830 --> 01:34:20,080
i tell people please don't call me a

2303
01:34:23,590 --> 01:34:21,840
ufologist and they say well what do you

2304
01:34:25,910 --> 01:34:23,600
mean

2305
01:34:26,870 --> 01:34:25,920
you're doing all this stuff and i said

2306
01:34:28,709 --> 01:34:26,880
look

2307
01:34:30,709 --> 01:34:28,719
you know i'm interested in a lot of

2308
01:34:33,030 --> 01:34:30,719
things okay ufology is one of them and

2309
01:34:35,430 --> 01:34:33,040
if i was a ufologist i'd be working on

2310
01:34:37,510 --> 01:34:35,440
you ufo dab

2311
01:34:38,950 --> 01:34:37,520
and since nobody else is i guess i gotta

2312
01:34:39,910 --> 01:34:38,960
do it you know

2313
01:34:41,590 --> 01:34:39,920
so

2314
01:34:45,189 --> 01:34:41,600
um

2315
01:34:49,189 --> 01:34:45,199
i'm i'm so sad that we lost our

2316
01:34:51,030 --> 01:34:49,199
our third partner wayne holland he uh

2317
01:34:53,350 --> 01:34:51,040
he was the the

2318
01:34:56,229 --> 01:34:53,360
soul behind the whole effort he he

2319
01:34:58,149 --> 01:34:56,239
really drove it through the lean years

2320
01:35:00,390 --> 01:34:58,159
he and i worked together

2321
01:35:02,550 --> 01:35:00,400
on the ufo camera project

2322
01:35:05,590 --> 01:35:02,560
for 12 years and then we

2323
01:35:08,390 --> 01:35:05,600
we we met ron and dovetailed our efforts

2324
01:35:11,030 --> 01:35:08,400
for the last five years now so this is

2325
01:35:13,189 --> 01:35:11,040
like this what

2326
01:35:16,950 --> 01:35:13,199
16-year

2327
01:35:21,910 --> 01:35:19,109
uh interesting well thank you for all

2328
01:35:23,830 --> 01:35:21,920
that uh so that question that came up is

2329
01:35:30,950 --> 01:35:23,840
the area i do want to talk about that

2330
01:35:33,910 --> 01:35:32,950
yeah there's stuff going on all the time

2331
01:35:35,750 --> 01:35:33,920
there

2332
01:35:37,590 --> 01:35:35,760
um it's just that

2333
01:35:38,709 --> 01:35:37,600
for most people it's not that big of a

2334
01:35:41,430 --> 01:35:38,719
deal

2335
01:35:43,590 --> 01:35:41,440
so because we're used to it right

2336
01:35:46,149 --> 01:35:43,600
yeah it's like it's like being in new

2337
01:35:48,390 --> 01:35:46,159
york city and almost seeing a a bicycle

2338
01:35:49,350 --> 01:35:48,400
messenger getting hit by a car it's like

2339
01:35:50,870 --> 01:35:49,360
whoa

2340
01:35:53,830 --> 01:35:50,880
check that out but you're not gonna you

2341
01:35:55,590 --> 01:35:53,840
know you're not gonna

2342
01:35:57,910 --> 01:35:55,600
go home and go honey honey you wouldn't

2343
01:35:59,990 --> 01:35:57,920
believe what i saw today a bicycle

2344
01:36:00,950 --> 01:36:00,000
messenger almost got hit by a bus you

2345
01:36:02,709 --> 01:36:00,960
know

2346
01:36:05,030 --> 01:36:02,719
you're not going to do that if you see

2347
01:36:06,070 --> 01:36:05,040
some silver thing fly by in the valley

2348
01:36:11,109 --> 01:36:06,080
it's like

2349
01:36:14,870 --> 01:36:12,070
you know

2350
01:36:18,229 --> 01:36:14,880
that's the whole database thing and

2351
01:36:19,510 --> 01:36:18,239
it doesn't work uh in areas that

2352
01:36:22,310 --> 01:36:19,520
that are uh

2353
01:36:25,030 --> 01:36:22,320
have a predominance of activity hotspot

2354
01:36:26,950 --> 01:36:25,040
areas that that people become numb to it

2355
01:36:29,270 --> 01:36:26,960
they become a nerd to it to a certain

2356
01:36:31,430 --> 01:36:29,280
degree obviously real spectacular events

2357
01:36:33,350 --> 01:36:31,440
are gonna you know like all all the

2358
01:36:35,910 --> 01:36:33,360
stuff that was going on there in the 90s

2359
01:36:39,109 --> 01:36:35,920
and the 60s and the

2360
01:36:43,990 --> 01:36:41,669
there were numerous numerous

2361
01:36:47,910 --> 01:36:44,000
newspaper articles and

2362
01:36:49,990 --> 01:36:47,920
magazine stories and regional uh

2363
01:36:52,390 --> 01:36:50,000
coverage of the events that were going

2364
01:36:54,790 --> 01:36:52,400
on there and elsewhere uh in the rocky

2365
01:36:56,390 --> 01:36:54,800
mountains and especially colorado

2366
01:36:57,830 --> 01:36:56,400
so uh

2367
01:37:01,189 --> 01:36:57,840
and they you talked about judy

2368
01:37:03,990 --> 01:37:01,199
messalin's uh ufo watch tower right is

2369
01:37:06,550 --> 01:37:04,000
that is that in that area is that right

2370
01:37:07,750 --> 01:37:06,560
there

2371
01:37:10,070 --> 01:37:07,760
people have asked me what do you think

2372
01:37:13,030 --> 01:37:10,080
of the ufo watchtower and i said well

2373
01:37:15,270 --> 01:37:13,040
it's not something that i'd build

2374
01:37:17,669 --> 01:37:15,280
but if i was gonna build one

2375
01:37:20,550 --> 01:37:17,679
i would build it right there she's got a

2376
01:37:23,030 --> 01:37:20,560
front row seat to the hottest hot spot

2377
01:37:24,070 --> 01:37:23,040
in north america

2378
01:37:26,149 --> 01:37:24,080
well you know

2379
01:37:30,070 --> 01:37:26,159
yeah do you know if that that people are

2380
01:37:33,350 --> 01:37:30,950
yeah

2381
01:37:35,350 --> 01:37:33,360
she claims about 300 people since she

2382
01:37:37,189 --> 01:37:35,360
opened i i

2383
01:37:39,350 --> 01:37:37,199
i think it's

2384
01:37:41,510 --> 01:37:39,360
it would be way more than that just

2385
01:37:43,669 --> 01:37:41,520
on that road that goes beyond north to

2386
01:37:46,070 --> 01:37:43,679
south across her uh

2387
01:37:48,709 --> 01:37:46,080
across her property uh you know it's the

2388
01:37:49,830 --> 01:37:48,719
gun barrel it's 60 miles as straight as

2389
01:37:53,510 --> 01:37:49,840
an arrow

2390
01:37:56,149 --> 01:37:53,520
um it's highway 17.

2391
01:37:57,030 --> 01:37:56,159
on that stretch of road

2392
01:37:59,510 --> 01:37:57,040
going

2393
01:38:02,709 --> 01:37:59,520
that 60 miles

2394
01:38:04,870 --> 01:38:02,719
i've got to have at least 25 30

2395
01:38:07,270 --> 01:38:04,880
sightings of my siding log

2396
01:38:08,149 --> 01:38:07,280
just just from people driving on that

2397
01:38:10,470 --> 01:38:08,159
road

2398
01:38:12,870 --> 01:38:10,480
i personally have had

2399
01:38:14,390 --> 01:38:12,880
half a dozen sightings

2400
01:38:17,669 --> 01:38:14,400
because that's the only way to get to

2401
01:38:19,109 --> 01:38:17,679
creststone if you're south and

2402
01:38:20,950 --> 01:38:19,119
you know on on the east side of the

2403
01:38:22,950 --> 01:38:20,960
valley and

2404
01:38:25,990 --> 01:38:22,960
you know i was gigging i was driving

2405
01:38:28,149 --> 01:38:26,000
around all hours of the night you know

2406
01:38:32,390 --> 01:38:28,159
coming home from gigs at 2 33 in the

2407
01:38:36,149 --> 01:38:33,669
it's just

2408
01:38:37,830 --> 01:38:36,159
i broke down once actually i had my one

2409
01:38:39,990 --> 01:38:37,840
of the most

2410
01:38:42,310 --> 01:38:40,000
riveting sighting i've ever seen

2411
01:38:45,109 --> 01:38:42,320
was when i was walking well below zero

2412
01:38:47,109 --> 01:38:45,119
on these cowboy boots and wondering if

2413
01:38:50,229 --> 01:38:47,119
i'm gonna freeze to death

2414
01:38:52,870 --> 01:38:50,239
and i heard this crackling sound and it

2415
01:38:56,229 --> 01:38:52,880
kind of felt a glow and i looked up

2416
01:38:58,950 --> 01:38:56,239
and this green fireball huge uh

2417
01:39:01,910 --> 01:38:58,960
bigger than a full moon and it was at

2418
01:39:04,709 --> 01:39:01,920
least 15 miles away because it went all

2419
01:39:06,310 --> 01:39:04,719
the way from south to north up the song

2420
01:39:09,750 --> 01:39:06,320
greater christos

2421
01:39:11,910 --> 01:39:09,760
with a short little tail and uh

2422
01:39:13,030 --> 01:39:11,920
it lit up the mountains with this kind

2423
01:39:14,709 --> 01:39:13,040
of sick

2424
01:39:16,310 --> 01:39:14,719
greenish color

2425
01:39:18,310 --> 01:39:16,320
when we're skimmed right over the

2426
01:39:21,350 --> 01:39:18,320
mountain tops and i i you know i'm

2427
01:39:23,189 --> 01:39:21,360
looking at 100 miles that it traveled

2428
01:39:25,990 --> 01:39:23,199
and uh

2429
01:39:28,390 --> 01:39:26,000
wow not very fast i mean it was doing

2430
01:39:34,790 --> 01:39:32,229
three four hundred miles an hour maybe

2431
01:39:37,510 --> 01:39:34,800
a little bit more less

2432
01:39:38,229 --> 01:39:37,520
relatively slow

2433
01:39:40,790 --> 01:39:38,239
too

2434
01:39:42,229 --> 01:39:40,800
yeah yeah but but lighting up the tops

2435
01:39:44,310 --> 01:39:42,239
you know because the mountains had snow

2436
01:39:46,229 --> 01:39:44,320
on them and so the green was

2437
01:39:48,310 --> 01:39:46,239
i mean it was turning the mountaintops

2438
01:39:49,990 --> 01:39:48,320
green as it went up i mean

2439
01:39:51,189 --> 01:39:50,000
that's it's kind of hard to argue with

2440
01:39:53,030 --> 01:39:51,199
that

2441
01:39:55,430 --> 01:39:53,040
you know if we had had youth adapt would

2442
01:39:57,990 --> 01:39:55,440
have caught the entire transit of that

2443
01:39:59,350 --> 01:39:58,000
object yeah it would have been captured

2444
01:40:01,990 --> 01:39:59,360
on those cameras

2445
01:40:04,149 --> 01:40:02,000
right right and green is one of the

2446
01:40:06,070 --> 01:40:04,159
colors you know we talked earlier about

2447
01:40:07,990 --> 01:40:06,080
orange you know the orange orbs that

2448
01:40:09,350 --> 01:40:08,000
people are singing and you know a lot of

2449
01:40:11,109 --> 01:40:09,360
orange lights and stuff like that but

2450
01:40:12,470 --> 01:40:11,119
green is another one

2451
01:40:15,030 --> 01:40:12,480
you know it's funny you don't hear or

2452
01:40:18,550 --> 01:40:15,040
whatever in the southwest yeah

2453
01:40:21,350 --> 01:40:18,560
yeah i mean uh i i was just on uh chris

2454
01:40:25,109 --> 01:40:21,360
lito's show and talked about a pilot

2455
01:40:28,790 --> 01:40:25,119
that he was uh somewhere going a long

2456
01:40:31,109 --> 01:40:28,800
haul uh in an f-16 i think it was years

2457
01:40:33,990 --> 01:40:31,119
ago and he said that a green orb

2458
01:40:36,870 --> 01:40:34,000
followed him for like 300 miles

2459
01:40:39,030 --> 01:40:36,880
you know which is pretty amazing man

2460
01:40:41,510 --> 01:40:39,040
he would not be on he was a he was a

2461
01:40:43,030 --> 01:40:41,520
deadheading captain on american airlines

2462
01:40:44,709 --> 01:40:43,040
and i couldn't get him to talk on my

2463
01:40:46,229 --> 01:40:44,719
show he said nope i said all right you

2464
01:40:48,149 --> 01:40:46,239
won't be on video

2465
01:40:49,750 --> 01:40:48,159
and you can you know you don't have to

2466
01:40:53,750 --> 01:40:49,760
say your name i just want to hear you

2467
01:40:55,109 --> 01:40:53,760
tell the story he goes nope don't do it

2468
01:40:56,470 --> 01:40:55,119
he's just afraid of his job but

2469
01:40:58,550 --> 01:40:56,480
unfortunately

2470
01:40:59,669 --> 01:40:58,560
well these guys you know it's all

2471
01:41:01,669 --> 01:40:59,679
changing

2472
01:41:02,390 --> 01:41:01,679
yeah it's not so

2473
01:41:04,629 --> 01:41:02,400
yeah

2474
01:41:06,629 --> 01:41:04,639
it doesn't have the stigma

2475
01:41:08,229 --> 01:41:06,639
last three years have really really i

2476
01:41:11,189 --> 01:41:08,239
never thought i'd

2477
01:41:13,830 --> 01:41:11,199
i knew i'd see it happen if i was lucky

2478
01:41:15,910 --> 01:41:13,840
but i never expected it you know

2479
01:41:18,229 --> 01:41:15,920
you know i always i was hoped for it but

2480
01:41:20,229 --> 01:41:18,239
uh and i kind of knew that i'd see it

2481
01:41:21,189 --> 01:41:20,239
but i i

2482
01:41:23,990 --> 01:41:21,199
you know

2483
01:41:25,510 --> 01:41:24,000
this newfound acceptance of the subject

2484
01:41:27,990 --> 01:41:25,520
is is uh

2485
01:41:29,510 --> 01:41:28,000
for a lot of i think a lot of people

2486
01:41:33,430 --> 01:41:29,520
i can

2487
01:41:35,830 --> 01:41:33,440
um you know there's a certain

2488
01:41:37,990 --> 01:41:35,840
feeling of of being redeemed a little

2489
01:41:40,470 --> 01:41:38,000
bit and being

2490
01:41:44,070 --> 01:41:40,480
you know validated because

2491
01:41:52,310 --> 01:41:47,669
ufological nerds are

2492
01:41:57,030 --> 01:41:53,830
let me tell you when i was living in

2493
01:41:59,750 --> 01:41:57,040
manhattan for 12 you know 10 years

2494
01:42:03,510 --> 01:41:59,760
new york for 12.

2495
01:42:06,870 --> 01:42:03,520
i can probably count the number of times

2496
01:42:08,470 --> 01:42:06,880
i had a conversation about this stuff uh

2497
01:42:11,270 --> 01:42:08,480
with a stranger

2498
01:42:13,350 --> 01:42:11,280
yeah uh and probably on one hand i can

2499
01:42:15,590 --> 01:42:13,360
you know of course with with my my

2500
01:42:17,750 --> 01:42:15,600
buddies they knew i was crazy i was

2501
01:42:19,990 --> 01:42:17,760
taking them on trips to try to see the

2502
01:42:22,470 --> 01:42:20,000
the hudson valley triangles and stuff

2503
01:42:24,229 --> 01:42:22,480
and i had friends that saw it and we

2504
01:42:25,590 --> 01:42:24,239
were chasing around after and every time

2505
01:42:27,430 --> 01:42:25,600
we'd go out it wouldn't be there the

2506
01:42:30,550 --> 01:42:27,440
next day they'd be there

2507
01:42:32,470 --> 01:42:30,560
oh i hated it uh and they hated it too

2508
01:42:34,390 --> 01:42:32,480
because they were you know

2509
01:42:36,149 --> 01:42:34,400
no i don't want to do that again man we

2510
01:42:37,910 --> 01:42:36,159
just sat around for three hours and

2511
01:42:40,070 --> 01:42:37,920
nothing happened

2512
01:42:43,510 --> 01:42:40,080
it's like fishing yeah

2513
01:42:44,550 --> 01:42:43,520
when you're in your early 20s that's uh

2514
01:42:48,470 --> 01:42:44,560
that's

2515
01:42:49,510 --> 01:42:48,480
yeah yeah um so i i think it's it's

2516
01:42:51,510 --> 01:42:49,520
funny when i

2517
01:42:54,070 --> 01:42:51,520
came here to the hotel i said

2518
01:42:56,470 --> 01:42:54,080
uh i said how's your internet internet

2519
01:42:59,270 --> 01:42:56,480
and the girl at the front desk said

2520
01:43:00,950 --> 01:42:59,280
um it's okay i said is there a place in

2521
01:43:03,430 --> 01:43:00,960
the hotel that's better than another and

2522
01:43:04,149 --> 01:43:03,440
she goes why do you need internet for

2523
01:43:05,830 --> 01:43:04,159
any

2524
01:43:08,709 --> 01:43:05,840
particular reason i said yeah i'm doing

2525
01:43:11,030 --> 01:43:08,719
a live show she goes oh really uh what

2526
01:43:15,030 --> 01:43:11,040
are you doing a live show on and and i

2527
01:43:16,390 --> 01:43:15,040
wasn't embarrassed to say ufos

2528
01:43:19,109 --> 01:43:16,400
that's cool

2529
01:43:21,590 --> 01:43:19,119
but uh i've been like i i've kept that

2530
01:43:23,350 --> 01:43:21,600
quiet a lot in uh you know in my

2531
01:43:25,510 --> 01:43:23,360
professional world and stuff like that

2532
01:43:27,830 --> 01:43:25,520
and but i'm not feeling that pressure

2533
01:43:30,550 --> 01:43:27,840
like i did so i think there is

2534
01:43:32,390 --> 01:43:30,560
i think that kind of frees it up for

2535
01:43:34,870 --> 01:43:32,400
it's like the the water lifting all

2536
01:43:36,390 --> 01:43:34,880
boats up as they say you know yeah

2537
01:43:39,030 --> 01:43:36,400
exactly

2538
01:43:40,390 --> 01:43:39,040
i totally agree martin i i i think it's

2539
01:43:45,189 --> 01:43:40,400
uh

2540
01:43:47,350 --> 01:43:45,199
because of the way it's unfolding

2541
01:43:49,910 --> 01:43:47,360
because you know all of a sudden

2542
01:43:53,030 --> 01:43:49,920
we we've had a an extra bonus and not

2543
01:43:55,590 --> 01:43:53,040
many people are talking about this they

2544
01:43:58,390 --> 01:43:55,600
were analyzing it

2545
01:44:00,950 --> 01:43:58,400
the fact that the reason why ossoff

2546
01:44:02,709 --> 01:44:00,960
had to spin off into atep and and why

2547
01:44:03,910 --> 01:44:02,719
ossoff really didn't

2548
01:44:07,669 --> 01:44:03,920
didn't

2549
01:44:10,390 --> 01:44:07,679
it was just ill-conceived was because

2550
01:44:13,270 --> 01:44:10,400
they got involved in in

2551
01:44:16,470 --> 01:44:13,280
you know attendant phenomena uh

2552
01:44:18,870 --> 01:44:16,480
such as the pre-sentient type phenomenon

2553
01:44:21,350 --> 01:44:18,880
skin walker ranch that john alexander

2554
01:44:24,629 --> 01:44:21,360
likes to talk about and and once you're

2555
01:44:26,870 --> 01:44:24,639
starting to go from nuts and bolts craft

2556
01:44:29,030 --> 01:44:26,880
are violating our airspace and our

2557
01:44:31,750 --> 01:44:29,040
national security issue to

2558
01:44:34,550 --> 01:44:31,760
people you know being injured by

2559
01:44:37,910 --> 01:44:34,560
uh paranormal stuff i mean

2560
01:44:39,430 --> 01:44:37,920
there was a linking there um

2561
01:44:40,229 --> 01:44:39,440
early on

2562
01:44:42,390 --> 01:44:40,239
uh

2563
01:44:44,709 --> 01:44:42,400
with the you know with the initial

2564
01:44:47,270 --> 01:44:44,719
uh with the initial conversations and

2565
01:44:50,629 --> 01:44:47,280
ideas that were

2566
01:44:53,590 --> 01:44:50,639
shared with harry reid and and bigelow

2567
01:44:55,189 --> 01:44:53,600
at least based on what i i can surmise

2568
01:44:57,430 --> 01:44:55,199
um

2569
01:44:59,669 --> 01:44:57,440
that they always were aware that there

2570
01:45:02,070 --> 01:44:59,679
was something more going on and

2571
01:45:05,510 --> 01:45:02,080
consciousness was playing a large part

2572
01:45:08,310 --> 01:45:05,520
in this and that's why bigelow was so

2573
01:45:11,669 --> 01:45:08,320
intrigued by this he's very into

2574
01:45:14,470 --> 01:45:11,679
into the idea of studying consciousness

2575
01:45:17,189 --> 01:45:14,480
and uh he's put his money where his

2576
01:45:18,870 --> 01:45:17,199
mouth is too more than anybody that i

2577
01:45:20,950 --> 01:45:18,880
that i know of uh

2578
01:45:22,550 --> 01:45:20,960
you know lawrence rockefeller put a lot

2579
01:45:23,910 --> 01:45:22,560
of money into things too but not like

2580
01:45:25,990 --> 01:45:23,920
robert bigelow

2581
01:45:27,510 --> 01:45:26,000
uh he's a man on a mission and i i

2582
01:45:29,910 --> 01:45:27,520
respect that

2583
01:45:30,690 --> 01:45:29,920
but at the same time

2584
01:45:32,390 --> 01:45:30,700
you know there's

2585
01:45:34,470 --> 01:45:32,400
[Music]

2586
01:45:36,149 --> 01:45:34,480
the way this whole thing's unfolding is

2587
01:45:38,149 --> 01:45:36,159
is

2588
01:45:40,790 --> 01:45:38,159
it's almost like it's been you know sort

2589
01:45:42,629 --> 01:45:40,800
of mapped out and pre-ordained you know

2590
01:45:44,229 --> 01:45:42,639
and i i

2591
01:45:46,070 --> 01:45:44,239
you know does that make you feel does

2592
01:45:46,870 --> 01:45:46,080
that make you feel cautious though i

2593
01:45:50,629 --> 01:45:46,880
mean

2594
01:45:53,109 --> 01:45:50,639
no because ultimately it's it's a it's a

2595
01:45:54,149 --> 01:45:53,119
you know it's a win-win scenario uh for

2596
01:45:56,390 --> 01:45:54,159
everybody

2597
01:45:58,550 --> 01:45:56,400
the only thing that i'm worried about is

2598
01:46:01,510 --> 01:45:58,560
the negation of

2599
01:46:05,830 --> 01:46:01,520
you know the rebranding of of this whole

2600
01:46:08,229 --> 01:46:05,840
mystery from from the ubiquitous ufo uh

2601
01:46:09,629 --> 01:46:08,239
to this amorphous

2602
01:46:12,950 --> 01:46:09,639
you know

2603
01:46:15,990 --> 01:46:12,960
unidentified phenomena

2604
01:46:18,629 --> 01:46:16,000
yeah yeah or phenomenon

2605
01:46:20,790 --> 01:46:18,639
yeah uh so yeah i have a problem with

2606
01:46:23,030 --> 01:46:20,800
that with that part of it what they're

2607
01:46:25,750 --> 01:46:23,040
doing is they're trying to wipe the

2608
01:46:29,350 --> 01:46:25,760
slave clean that 70

2609
01:46:32,470 --> 01:46:29,360
you know five plus year uh

2610
01:46:33,910 --> 01:46:32,480
truth embargo is even uh uh that's it

2611
01:46:35,510 --> 01:46:33,920
would say or

2612
01:46:37,870 --> 01:46:35,520
you know the uh

2613
01:46:43,750 --> 01:46:41,750
mj-12 or you know spectre

2614
01:46:46,709 --> 01:46:43,760
or you know

2615
01:46:48,550 --> 01:46:46,719
what are some of the other bad guy

2616
01:46:49,990 --> 01:46:48,560
organizations

2617
01:46:52,950 --> 01:46:50,000
dr no

2618
01:46:57,669 --> 01:46:55,669
so you know we're we're now we're

2619
01:46:59,430 --> 01:46:57,679
getting on to you know the kids of the

2620
01:47:01,430 --> 01:46:59,440
cold warriors and

2621
01:47:02,310 --> 01:47:01,440
and they realize that they can't you

2622
01:47:03,910 --> 01:47:02,320
know

2623
01:47:06,310 --> 01:47:03,920
they're not willing

2624
01:47:08,790 --> 01:47:06,320
uh to hold the secret of their fathers

2625
01:47:10,870 --> 01:47:08,800
and grandfathers uh they're saying hey

2626
01:47:12,390 --> 01:47:10,880
we've got to figure out a way to to let

2627
01:47:14,229 --> 01:47:12,400
you know people know what they want to

2628
01:47:15,910 --> 01:47:14,239
know because this is not

2629
01:47:18,149 --> 01:47:15,920
you know

2630
01:47:19,830 --> 01:47:18,159
this is going to break open somehow

2631
01:47:22,070 --> 01:47:19,840
something's going to happen

2632
01:47:23,030 --> 01:47:22,080
we're going to be behind the the eight

2633
01:47:25,750 --> 01:47:23,040
ball

2634
01:47:28,470 --> 01:47:25,760
uh as you know the government speaking

2635
01:47:30,149 --> 01:47:28,480
they their job is control if they're not

2636
01:47:32,070 --> 01:47:30,159
in control they're behind the eight ball

2637
01:47:33,990 --> 01:47:32,080
and they they need to get ahead of the

2638
01:47:34,830 --> 01:47:34,000
narrative and they need to

2639
01:47:38,310 --> 01:47:34,840
uh

2640
01:47:40,709 --> 01:47:38,320
start controlling the situation which is

2641
01:47:42,470 --> 01:47:40,719
invariably what they end up trying to do

2642
01:47:45,830 --> 01:47:42,480
so

2643
01:47:48,950 --> 01:47:45,840
even though that's the case um

2644
01:47:51,109 --> 01:47:48,960
this recent amendment uh

2645
01:47:52,790 --> 01:47:51,119
you know the kirsten gilbert

2646
01:47:54,310 --> 01:47:52,800
uh

2647
01:47:57,270 --> 01:47:54,320
amendment to the

2648
01:47:59,109 --> 01:47:57,280
national defense authorization bill

2649
01:48:01,270 --> 01:47:59,119
uh

2650
01:48:03,510 --> 01:48:01,280
i'm really disappointed that the one

2651
01:48:05,669 --> 01:48:03,520
thing i was most excited by

2652
01:48:06,950 --> 01:48:05,679
which was the inclusion of a civilian

2653
01:48:09,669 --> 01:48:06,960
advisory

2654
01:48:11,350 --> 01:48:09,679
body and it was delineated out

2655
01:48:13,830 --> 01:48:11,360
how that those uh

2656
01:48:16,070 --> 01:48:13,840
individuals would be chosen

2657
01:48:18,629 --> 01:48:16,080
including uh i think two or three from

2658
01:48:19,750 --> 01:48:18,639
the from scu the

2659
01:48:21,109 --> 01:48:19,760
scientific

2660
01:48:23,510 --> 01:48:21,119
coalition

2661
01:48:26,149 --> 01:48:23,520
for ufology or whatever robert powell's

2662
01:48:28,390 --> 01:48:26,159
group um

2663
01:48:30,790 --> 01:48:28,400
and they excise that

2664
01:48:32,709 --> 01:48:30,800
from what i understand from the language

2665
01:48:34,790 --> 01:48:32,719
of the amendment so

2666
01:48:37,750 --> 01:48:34,800
uh you know this is all going to be

2667
01:48:39,109 --> 01:48:37,760
bureaucratically monitored and

2668
01:48:41,990 --> 01:48:39,119
there's not going to be any sort of

2669
01:48:43,590 --> 01:48:42,000
civilian oversight except for the

2670
01:48:44,950 --> 01:48:43,600
committees that are going to be in

2671
01:48:47,030 --> 01:48:44,960
charge

2672
01:48:49,109 --> 01:48:47,040
of oversight but in terms of of the

2673
01:48:53,910 --> 01:48:49,119
people

2674
01:48:56,629 --> 01:48:55,430
whatever

2675
01:48:58,390 --> 01:48:56,639
you know

2676
01:49:00,070 --> 01:48:58,400
lobbyists aren't going to be coming to

2677
01:49:02,550 --> 01:49:00,080
uh you know some scientists from the

2678
01:49:03,910 --> 01:49:02,560
university of montana you know lobbyists

2679
01:49:04,629 --> 01:49:03,920
aren't going to be coming to his door

2680
01:49:08,390 --> 01:49:04,639
and

2681
01:49:10,310 --> 01:49:08,400
making him a wealthy man

2682
01:49:12,149 --> 01:49:10,320
you know the quickest way to become a

2683
01:49:14,870 --> 01:49:12,159
millionaire in america is to be elected

2684
01:49:16,470 --> 01:49:14,880
to congress i mean

2685
01:49:17,270 --> 01:49:16,480
let's get real

2686
01:49:21,270 --> 01:49:17,280
yeah

2687
01:49:22,470 --> 01:49:21,280
anyone would like to call in and that

2688
01:49:23,160 --> 01:49:22,480
number

2689
01:49:24,870 --> 01:49:23,170
all the way dude

2690
01:49:26,790 --> 01:49:24,880
[Laughter]

2691
01:49:29,350 --> 01:49:26,800
eight five five four seven two five four

2692
01:49:30,310 --> 01:49:29,360
eight three oh chris you're always fun

2693
01:49:32,470 --> 01:49:30,320
um

2694
01:49:33,830 --> 01:49:32,480
we have oh geez i didn't realize this we

2695
01:49:36,310 --> 01:49:33,840
only have about four or four minutes

2696
01:49:38,390 --> 01:49:36,320
left of the show so i i better take that

2697
01:49:41,350 --> 01:49:38,400
back unless someone calls in right away

2698
01:49:43,510 --> 01:49:41,360
uh but uh i didn't realize wow that

2699
01:49:44,390 --> 01:49:43,520
that's gone really fast so

2700
01:49:47,109 --> 01:49:44,400
um

2701
01:49:49,510 --> 01:49:47,119
we should hopefully bore you

2702
01:49:52,629 --> 01:49:49,520
oh not at all no no it always goes fast

2703
01:49:53,830 --> 01:49:52,639
when you're on and that's good um so

2704
01:49:56,149 --> 01:49:53,840
uh the

2705
01:49:58,229 --> 01:49:56,159
thing that people know you from is you

2706
01:50:00,550 --> 01:49:58,239
wrote the best book

2707
01:50:02,070 --> 01:50:00,560
um on cattle mutilations which i think

2708
01:50:03,830 --> 01:50:02,080
is fascinating i know you've talked

2709
01:50:06,070 --> 01:50:03,840
about it on my show a number of times

2710
01:50:08,870 --> 01:50:06,080
stalking the herd i have the book it's

2711
01:50:11,109 --> 01:50:08,880
huge is it like 500 it feels like 500

2712
01:50:13,270 --> 01:50:11,119
pages is it like 3 400

2713
01:50:15,350 --> 01:50:13,280
how much

2714
01:50:17,910 --> 01:50:15,360
600 pages yeah

2715
01:50:18,950 --> 01:50:17,920
it was actually 900 when i finished it

2716
01:50:21,910 --> 01:50:18,960
but

2717
01:50:23,910 --> 01:50:21,920
you know i took out all the uh

2718
01:50:27,669 --> 01:50:23,920
it took out 300 pages which is going to

2719
01:50:28,629 --> 01:50:27,679
be uh included in the follow up

2720
01:50:29,669 --> 01:50:28,639
oh you're actually going to do a

2721
01:50:32,149 --> 01:50:29,679
follow-up

2722
01:50:34,550 --> 01:50:32,159
i've been working on it six years

2723
01:50:35,430 --> 01:50:34,560
with david perkins

2724
01:50:37,510 --> 01:50:35,440
oh

2725
01:50:40,709 --> 01:50:37,520
wow we're hoping to get it out by

2726
01:50:42,070 --> 01:50:40,719
christmas 2000 uh 2022.

2727
01:50:44,470 --> 01:50:42,080
so yeah

2728
01:50:46,870 --> 01:50:44,480
well it's it's funny you know this i i

2729
01:50:50,149 --> 01:50:46,880
was listening somewhere and

2730
01:50:53,990 --> 01:50:50,159
and someone said something like there is

2731
01:50:56,550 --> 01:50:54,000
a ufo connection and then there someone

2732
01:50:57,589 --> 01:50:56,560
said there's a military connection

2733
01:51:00,070 --> 01:50:57,599
um

2734
01:51:03,750 --> 01:51:00,080
could it be all of the above or none

2735
01:51:04,790 --> 01:51:03,760
yeah just like ufos ufos could be ets

2736
01:51:06,709 --> 01:51:04,800
they could be

2737
01:51:09,510 --> 01:51:06,719
us coming back from the future they

2738
01:51:10,709 --> 01:51:09,520
could be uh ultra terrestrials that live

2739
01:51:15,270 --> 01:51:10,719
you know

2740
01:51:16,629 --> 01:51:15,280
at the deepest point on the planet or

2741
01:51:19,189 --> 01:51:16,639
they could be

2742
01:51:21,589 --> 01:51:19,199
uh living in the mantle and some sort of

2743
01:51:23,189 --> 01:51:21,599
aquatic environment there or they could

2744
01:51:26,870 --> 01:51:23,199
they could be

2745
01:51:28,709 --> 01:51:26,880
atmospheric beings uh creatures that

2746
01:51:30,709 --> 01:51:28,719
can float in and out with our

2747
01:51:31,750 --> 01:51:30,719
environment there's a ton of closed

2748
01:51:34,229 --> 01:51:31,760
system

2749
01:51:35,910 --> 01:51:34,239
uh explanations that i've i've always

2750
01:51:36,790 --> 01:51:35,920
been fascinated by

2751
01:51:39,350 --> 01:51:36,800
um

2752
01:51:41,830 --> 01:51:39,360
surviving technology from uh

2753
01:51:43,510 --> 01:51:41,840
anti-diluvian civilizations

2754
01:51:46,070 --> 01:51:43,520
i mean

2755
01:51:49,510 --> 01:51:46,080
yeah we don't know we have as much

2756
01:51:51,189 --> 01:51:49,520
evidence for any of those as we do for

2757
01:51:52,310 --> 01:51:51,199
all the others so

2758
01:51:54,149 --> 01:51:52,320
i agree

2759
01:51:56,709 --> 01:51:54,159
and you know that's what that's one of

2760
01:51:57,750 --> 01:51:56,719
the reasons that i i keep doing i love

2761
01:52:01,270 --> 01:51:57,760
this

2762
01:52:02,629 --> 01:52:01,280
subject it's because of all the ideas

2763
01:52:03,750 --> 01:52:02,639
of of what

2764
01:52:05,430 --> 01:52:03,760
they could do

2765
01:52:06,629 --> 01:52:05,440
you know

2766
01:52:08,310 --> 01:52:06,639
um

2767
01:52:10,390 --> 01:52:08,320
yeah

2768
01:52:12,149 --> 01:52:10,400
it's keeps your brain fresh you know it

2769
01:52:14,550 --> 01:52:12,159
makes you think uh

2770
01:52:16,470 --> 01:52:14,560
it's it's like uh

2771
01:52:18,390 --> 01:52:16,480
you know it's a huge puzzle and if

2772
01:52:20,470 --> 01:52:18,400
you're good at puzzles uh this is a good

2773
01:52:22,390 --> 01:52:20,480
one and if you're really good at puzzles

2774
01:52:26,310 --> 01:52:22,400
come see me because i need some help

2775
01:52:30,709 --> 01:52:28,470
yeah so um

2776
01:52:33,030 --> 01:52:30,719
in the follow-up book are you so you're

2777
01:52:35,430 --> 01:52:33,040
obviously working on recent cases too

2778
01:52:37,910 --> 01:52:35,440
then right

2779
01:52:40,310 --> 01:52:37,920
the following book is called mute speak

2780
01:52:42,830 --> 01:52:40,320
actually is a working title uh i'm

2781
01:52:45,990 --> 01:52:42,840
co-authoring it with david perkins

2782
01:52:49,430 --> 01:52:46,000
my my mentor

2783
01:52:52,149 --> 01:52:49,440
and uh it's basically an analysis it's a

2784
01:52:53,270 --> 01:52:52,159
it it's an oral analysis of stock in the

2785
01:52:55,270 --> 01:52:53,280
herd

2786
01:52:58,149 --> 01:52:55,280
i see we only got we have less than a

2787
01:52:59,750 --> 01:52:58,159
minute here so but i wanted to uh thank

2788
01:53:01,910 --> 01:52:59,760
you so much and i just wanted to tell

2789
01:53:03,910 --> 01:53:01,920
you that i i got contacted from someone

2790
01:53:06,550 --> 01:53:03,920
at canada that told me they had a horse

2791
01:53:10,629 --> 01:53:06,560
mutilation like 40 years ago

2792
01:53:12,950 --> 01:53:10,639
that was really bizarre so uh that's it

2793
01:53:14,950 --> 01:53:12,960
somewhere in canada toronto area

2794
01:53:17,510 --> 01:53:14,960
but anyway we would like to know more

2795
01:53:18,629 --> 01:53:17,520
about that all right give me a text all

2796
01:53:20,390 --> 01:53:18,639
right chris

2797
01:53:22,550 --> 01:53:20,400
great to talk to you all right all right

2798
01:53:24,310 --> 01:53:22,560
cool talk to me chris hi everybody

2799
01:53:26,950 --> 01:53:24,320
all right take care

2800
01:53:28,550 --> 01:53:26,960
all right everyone so next week we will

2801
01:53:30,790 --> 01:53:28,560
be back um

2802
01:53:32,310 --> 01:53:30,800
as i mentioned with john dover a

2803
01:53:34,070 --> 01:53:32,320
a navajo ranger it should be a great

2804
01:53:35,750 --> 01:53:34,080
show interesting show next week thank

2805
01:53:39,470 --> 01:53:35,760
you so much everyone and remember to

2806
01:53:48,790 --> 01:53:39,480
keep your eyes to the sky